HL Deb 24 June 1980 vol 410 cc1475-7

2.50 p.m.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what was the reply from the USSR when the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary expressed regret at the invasion of Afghanistan and whether any further communications have since taken place between both Governments concerning the invasion.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, in my noble friend's talk with Mr. Gromyko on 17th May and in diplomatic contacts, most recently on 11th June, we have pressed the Russians to withdraw from Afghanistan as part of a negotiated settlement. However, they have so far shown little willingness to negotiate seriously and are pursuing their policy of repression in Afghanistan.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, with respect to the noble Lord, I would have preferred to have the Foreign Secretary answer my Question, to whom it was actually addressed, because I am asking what communication he addressed to the Russians. However, the noble Lord is quite competent to answer for the Government. What I want to know is this. Instead of all the fuss about the Olympics, has it ever occurred to the Government to notify the Russian Government that, unless they withdraw their forces, we will supply adequate weapons to the Afghans who are seeking to resist the Russian invasion so that they can undertake the task themselves and clear the Russians out of Afghanistan as rapidly as possible?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord is disappointed about the Minister who is answering his Question today. His Question is, however, tabled to the Government and I answer for the Government, as do all other Ministers from this Box. As for military aid to the insurgents, which the noble Lord was suggesting, the Afghan opposition to the Soviet Union appears to be sustained without external assistance. The main source of weapons for the insurgents seems to have been those obtained from Afghans defecting from the Afghan army and also those that they have captured from the Russians. I should like to make it quite clear that the United Kingdom have not supplied arms to the insurgents, as has been suggested. Indeed, the suggestions that we and various other nations instigated the fighting in Afghanistan by supplying the arms are of course quite untrue.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I did not suggest that he was incompetent to answer the Question? I paid my respect to him. I am not disappointed, and, on the other hand, he does not require to be annoyed. What I want to know is this. Now that within the last 48 hours the countries of the alliance have passed a resolution condemning the Russian invasion, what are they going to do about it? Just pass resolutions? Is that what is going to happen, as in the case of Czechoslovakia some years ago when they made a hullabaloo about it but did nothing? What is going to happen?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the noble Lord obviously is not aware that there are two ways of dealing with such matters. One of them would be a military solution from the West, which is of course not contemplated at all. The other solution is a diplomatic solution. That is the one we are pursuing, and that is the one which we hope will succeed.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, is there any prospect of the formation of an Afghan Government in exile?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I think that that would be for the Afghanis themselves.

The Earl of HALSBURY

My Lords, is not the choice of the word "insurgents" a rather odd one to describe a nation in arms defending itself against a foreign aggressor?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am sorry if the precise word upsets the noble Earl, but he is of course quite right in suggesting that this is an unprovoked attack upon a nation quite within their rights to defend themselves.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, can my noble friend give us an assurance that the very substantial loan originally negotiated with Russia, or made as an offer to Russia at very favourable percentage terms, is no longer open and has been closed since the invasion of Afghanistan, and will not be reopened until Afghanistan is again a free and independent nation?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, yes indeed, that line of credit ran out in fact in the middle of March, if my memory serves me aright, and will certainly not be renewed.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, if the diplomatic efforts, to which the noble Lord has referred, fail to succeed, perhaps in the next three months, is any other action to be taken? No action against the Russian Government at all by refusing to trade with them? And, if necessary, to provide weapons to the Afghans so that they can deal with the situation themselves?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, we shall have to take the situation as we find it in the time-scale that the noble Lord sets. We would not necessarily accept that particular time-scale. But we are not unhopeful that we shall achieve some progress diplomatically.