§ Lord HYLTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their reaction to the report of the Belfast Welfare Rights Project, published in March 1980; whether they will make a statement on its implications (a) for social policy generally, and (b) for statutory and voluntary social workers; and when they expect to bring forward proposals in the light of the report.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (Lord Elton)My Lords, the Government have welcomed this report, which provides a great deal of valuable information about the take-up of means-tested benefits in selected areas of Belfast and points out the many social problems facing, especially, those living in the inner city. The main implication of the report for social policy is to underline the importance of concentrating resources on the Belfast areas of special social need, and this continues to be the Government's policy. My honourable friend, the Minister with responsibility for the environment in Northern Ireland, is chairing a committee representative of all the public agencies involved, with a view to co-ordinating their programmes and ameliorating social conditions in these areas.
The report underlines the need for the training of social workers in welfare rights work and the Government are 960 examining the extent to which such training is already included on recognised social work courses or as a part of in-service training. It may be necessary to discuss this recommendation with the Central Council for Education and Training in Social Work.
The project will end next month but the Government are currently considering how the flow of information to the public about social security and other benefits can best be improved. The noble Lord will appreciate that the report contains a number of other recommendations which will need to be examined and these will be followed up as appropriate in the light of available financial resources.
§ Lord HYLTONMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his detailed reply and also for the Government's welcome to the report. In view, however, of the fact that Northern Ireland has a much colder and wetter climate than most of Britain, and that there is higher unemployment and worse conditions of housing by and large, would the Government consider a more generous scale of welfare benefits for that part of the United Kingdom?
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, I do not think there is a great prospect of having a separate scale or administration for the Province; but the noble Lord began by talking about assistance in respect of the climate, which led me to suppose he was interested in assistance with fuel costs, on which the report made a recommendation. I have to tell the noble Lord that, in our view, the report is quite wrong in representing that the measures to help poor consumers in Northern Ireland with their fuel bills last winter were a withdrawal of assistance from the elderly. In fact, largely the same range of people were eligible for assistance and almost twice as much was spent on last winter's package of measures as on the previous discount schemes. The Government are aware of the particular problem posed by high fuel costs in Northern Ireland, and consideration is at present being given to what extra assistance can be provided next winter for poor consumers in addition to the national measures announced recently by the Secretary of State for Social Services.
§ Lord BLEASEMy Lords, is the Minister aware that there is a considerable amount of discussion and talk around this report? Is there not a possibility that this penetrating and useful social survey may be relegated to nothing more than talk and, indeed, a depressing statistical exercise? May I ask the Minister: is there not a tendency to over-concentrate on the relief of poverty and unemployment rather than to take suitable action to prevent these social evils and problems? While I wholeheartedly welcome the Government's support for the general publication of the report, may I ask the Minister whether he would not agree that there is a need for some form of concerted action generated by the Government in order to tackle the proposals arising out of this report?
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, in response to the first part of the noble Lord's question, the answer is "No", the report will not be relegated to some dusty in-tray or pending-tray. Secondly, my honourable friend the Minister with responsibility for the environment is already chairing a committee embracing all the interests concerned on the very question of co-ordinating relief, to which the noble Lord refers. Thirdly, I as well as the Government entirely agree with him that the basic problem is not to cure the symptoms but to cure the disease itself. That is what our economic policy is about. The noble Lord and his friends may not agree with us in the way we tackle it, but we are in fact dedicated to curing the economic crisis; and that is the only way to remove poverty.
§ Lord TAYLOR of BLACKBURNMy Lords, may I ask the Minister: does not the same code of practice prevail in Northern Ireland as prevails in the rest of the United Kingdom?
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, I thought I had already said so.
§ Lord HYLTONMy Lords, can my noble friend comment on the recommendation in the report for a single integrated housing benefit to be applicable to Northern Ireland? If that could be experimented with there, would it not also be of great benefit to the rest of the United Kingdom?
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, the notion of a simple, single, housing benefit is not entirely new and there would appear to be certain advantages in it. It is clearly a recommendation that requires further consideration, and it will receive it.