HL Deb 17 June 1980 vol 410 cc964-7

2.48 p.m.

Lord JANNER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps were taken at the EEC summit in Venice on 12th and 13th June in respect of the manifesto of the Congress of A1 Fatah (the largest terrorist group affiliated to the PLO, headed by Mr. Arafat), which calls for the elimination of Israel and the escalation of violence against that state.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, we took full note of the results of the recent A1 Fatah Congress in considering our policy at the European Council. Any policy not involving recognition of Israel's right to live in peace is unacceptable to us. There is no question of encouraging the Palestine Liberation Organisation in such a policy.

Lord JANNER

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many people are very disturbed about the Government's attitude in respect of the PLO, which they regard as encouraging the PLO to believe that, even though they are determined—as they have recently stated again in the document to which I have referred—to destroy Israel, we are proposing to have dealings with them? Secondly, will the noble Lord let the House know whether that document has been presented to NATO, and whether it has been considered by the defence officers in this House, in view of the potential danger of such an entity, which is governed by the PLO, upon our defence and armament position?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the noble Lord expressed his views very forcefully yesterday, when my noble friend the Foreign Secretary made his original Statement. But the fact of the matter is that prospects of achieving a settlement in the Middle East are not realistic without taking into account the positition of the Palestinian people and the PLO.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, can my noble friend tell us whether there is any evidence yet that the notorious stand of the PLO has been modified or is in the process of being modified to conform with the purposes and spirit of the Council's resolution?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, we sometimes receive a number of conflicting reports on the views of the PLO and their associates, and the document referred to in the Question was one of them.

Lord BLYTON

My Lords, is the Minister aware that it was the Conservative Party, in their Balfour Declaration, who created the State of Israel? Why, therefore, do they take a jump now to support the Palestinians in the Arab world, who are out to destroy the State of Irsael which Balfour created?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the Balfour Declaration was before my time.

Lord JANNER

My Lords, is the noble Lord suggesting that Balfour, Lloyd George, Churchill and the other people who were instrumental in producing the Balfour Declaration had no idea what was happening? Does not the noble Lord realise that they considered the position very carefully and came to the conclusion that one democratic state in the Middle East would be very valuable, and that in view of what had happened the Jewish people were entitled to have some place from which they could protect themselves?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, of course we agree with the position of the State of Israel which was carefully described in the declaration which came from Venice the other day, but to bring Lloyd George into it is, I think, a bit much.

Several noble Lords

Why?

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, reference has been made to the defence officer of this House. Is that Black Rod or the Government Chief Whip?

Lord ELWYN-JONES

My Lords, the noble Lord disowns responsibility in this matter because all these things happened before his time, but in fact the State of Israel politically came into existence in 1948, which I think is just about within his time.

Lord TREFGARNE

Yes, my Lords, of course that is right, but I was asked about the views of Mr. Balfour and of Mr. Lloyd George.

Noble Lords

The noble Lord should know about that.

Lord TREFGARNE

I should have said the late Lord Lloyd-George. This is history, and of course that is fine. But the position of the State of Israel is not in question, and we have supported the declaration in that context.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, despite what was said in the other place yesterday and what has been said in this House today, many of us welcome the European statement about the Middle East, with its acceptance of the double principle of the security of Israel and the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord.

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