Baroness VICKERSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how the proposed cuts of 530 industrial and 455 non-industrial jobs in Her Majesty's Dockyards, will affect the entry of apprentices, a thousand of whom sat the examination last year, half of whom passed.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, MINISTRY of DEFENCE (Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal)My Lords, the size of this year's apprentice entry into the Royal Dockyards has not yet been decided. In recent years, the Dockyards (and indeed, the Ministry of Defence as a whole) have entered more apprentices than they need strictly for their own purposes. This is to help ease the problem of unemployment among school leavers. Pressure on Civil Service numbers now makes it much more difficult to continue providing this kind of help. Some reductions in the numbers entered are, therefore, likely.
Baroness VICKERSMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for the beginning of his Answer, may I ask why Devonport has been cut by 4.25 per cent., Chatham 1.45 per cent., Portsmouth 1.1 per cent. and Rosyth 1.14 per cent? Will he agree with me that Devonport Dockyard is a major industry in Devon and Cornwall, and has been for 300 years, and that there are other jobs to be had in the Chatham and Portsmouth areas? Could he not reconsider the very large cut that has been made in the Devonport Dockyard?
§ Lord STRATHCONA and MOUNT ROYALMy Lords, I think that my noble friend is a little premature in assuming that these are necessarily going to be the figures for these dockyards. The figures have yet to be submitted to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State in another place, but when they are finally agreed upon then, of course, the contribution of Devonport will be considered. I should be the last person to underrate the importance of the Devonport Dockyard.
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the old and treasured system of apprenticeship, particularly in engineering and the crafts, is one of the things, together with the skills of British craftsmen of all types, that has helped Britain to increase her trade and know-how overseas; and that we should not lose this treasured system? Much of the training needs aptitude, stability and attention to learning the craft as much as that of a surgeon who ultimately becomes great in his skill. Should we not remember to keep our apprenticeship system and to extend it?
§ Lord STRATHCONA and MOUNT ROYALMy Lords, I would agree with the noble Lord on the value which is attached to the apprentice training scheme, not only in the dockyards but in the engineering industry as a whole. Although it has nothing to do with the Question, may I say that I believe that engineers have been consistently underrated in this country and that something should be done about it? The dockyards recognise this and, as I said in my original Answer, they have consistently taken on more apprentices than they would normally require strictly for their own purposes.
Baroness VICKERSMy Lords, may I ask a supplementary question? Those figures have been printed in the Dockyard News, which is where I obtained them. My noble friend said previously that we were going to have a report on the dockyards published on 1st April. When shall we see this?
§ Lord STRATHCONA and MOUNT ROYALMy Lords, I am not sure that I said (and would be rather surprised if I did) that the dockyards study was to be published on 1st April. It was not pub- 745 lished on 1st April. In due time a consultative document on the dockyards study will be published; but I do not know when that will be.