HL Deb 09 June 1980 vol 410 cc7-10

2.48 p.m.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are prepared to nominate an observer, as part of a Commonwealth team, to enable an election to be held in Uganda on the pattern of the recent election in Zimbabwe.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, if the Commonwealth Secretariat were to circulate such a request we would certainly consider it carefully. It would of course be for the Ugandan Government to approach the Secretary-General first.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, while appreciating that Answer, may I ask whether there has not been remarkably comprehensive support for this proposal, first by ex-President Binaissa, secondly by President Nyerere of Tanzania, and thirdly by the fact that the new Government are giving consideration to it? In view of the unfortunate differences revealed this weekend between Kenya, Tanzania and Sudan, may I ask the noble Lord to say that the British Government will do everything they can, through the Commonwealth Secretariat, to obtain a harmonious solution to this problem and a democratic election?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, as I said earlier, in the first instance this is really a matter for the Ugandan Government, and I should not want to be pressed to give a Government view before we knew precisely what the Ugandan Government had in mind. However, as I also said earlier, we shall certainly consider the matter very carefully in due course, if called upon to do so. I can say that a representative of the Secretary-General visited Kampala just before the latest events to discuss a possible Common-wealth role in the elections with the then President, President Binaissa, and we have also been in touch with the Secretariat.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend Lord Brockway about the need to do everything possible to promote political stability based on democracy in Uganda, and I welcome very much the reference that the Minister has made to the Commonwealth Secretariat. May I ask the noble Lord—without having given him previous notice—whether we may expect an early Statement perhaps in this House and in another place about the situation in Uganda arising from the quite horrifying effects of the widespread famine in that country in the last two or three months? If an initiative were taken in regard to putting down a Private Notice Question, would the noble Lord convey to his noble friend the fact that the whole House would appreciate an opportunity to hear what the Government think can be done with others to alleviate the situation in Uganda?

Lord TREFGARNE

Certainly, my Lords; I should be very glad to answer Questions put down for me, but of course Private Notice Questions are a matter for my noble friend the Leader of the House.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, is it not true that a state of anarchy now prevails in Uganda? If that is true, is it not quite impossible to hold elections as long as that state of anarchy prevails?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the security situation in Uganda is far from satisfactory, but I do not think that I should go so far as to say that a state of anarchy prevails.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the Government are aware that the previous President, General Amin, has already declared that he is ready to return to Uganda and prevent the country falling into ruin, or whatever is likely to happen to it? Should not the Government be careful not to get their fingers burned by entering into this affair unduly?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I did not see the broadcast to which the noble Lord refers, but I understand that what the noble Lord mentions was one of the things that Mr. Amin said. With regard to British participation in this matter, I consider that we need to be careful not to draw too many parallels between this case and the case of Zimbabwe, which was referred to in the original Question. The two situations are very different indeed, and solutions found to be appropriate in one case may not necessarily be appropriate in another.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, will Her Majesty's Government take a more active part in approaching the voluntary agencies and persuading them to increase their aid to Uganda, as well as in ensuring that this aid reaches the quarter where it is most needed?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, in my experience the voluntary agencies need no persuading by the Government in these matters.

Lord GRIDLEY

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend Lord Trefgarne whether it is really reasonable to expect us to wait before anything is done, in order for approaches to be made by the Ugandan Government? Is it not a fact that the most frightful conditions are applying in Uganda at the present moment? Can this business really wait, bearing in mind the possibility of more deaths and events of that nature? Should we not initiate some action in this respect?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I think that we would be transgressing the proper procedures in this matter if we were to interfere in the internal affairs of Uganda. In any event, it is quite clearly for them in the first instance to invite the United Nations to supervise their elections.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, will the noble Lord at least draw the attention of the Commonwealth Secretariat to this exchange in this House?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am quite certain that the Commonwealth Secretariat is already aware of these matters.