§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Lord LEE of NEWTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government on what date the cleaning programme for the stonework of the Palace of Westminster will begin.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Environment is considering the report of the recent survey of the stonework. He has agreed that urgent repair work should go ahead. The timing of a major stone cleaning and repair programme will depend on when funds can be made available.
§ Lord LEE of NEWTONMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer. Is he aware that I am concerned not only about the appearance of the Palace, important though that is, but as I understand it the stonework, which is very soft stone, is now deteriorating rapidly? Moreover, while in 1973 the cost of repair was estimated to be some £2 million, the latest report, to which the noble Lord referred, estimates a cost of £6 million. Is it not the case that we cannot possibly wait for further deterioration to this magnificent building?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I am not quite sure whether I can accept the figures which the noble Lord has put forward. It certainly was £2 million, but as regards the 1980 figure it may not be quite as much as £6 million. However, it does include full cleaning and repair of the stonework. This year we shall start on the stonework which is dangerous, and we shall do the same next year. It will involve £70,000 this year and £75,000 next year. We are also doing a survey of certain areas which are suspected of being dangerous as well. We would all like to see the building clean, but we must do the essential work first.
§ Lord LEE of NEWTONMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that while, for example, the Abbey, has been made to look very lovely, and many of the buildings around Whitehall which have been cleaned are also looking very fine, this building is of particular importance, not only in Britain, but throughout the world? He knows that much of the surface of the stone is now crumbling 869 rapidly. It is a very false economy, is it not, if we are to allow that deterioration to go ahead at an accelerating pace, while, in fact, the other buildings which are not quite of the eminence of this one, are being cleaned daily? Somebody is bearing the costs.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I fully accept what the noble Lord says about the importance of this historic and most important building; he is pushing an open door in that respect. We are saying that at the moment, just cleaning for cleaning's sake to please the eye—although we would like to do it—is not financially "on". We want to get the structural stonework which is dangerous made secure and safe.
§ Lord MOYNEMy Lords, I should like to ask whether a stitch in time does not save nine? Ought not this work to be hurried on as fast as possible during this time when employment is so slack, before the boom which we hope is to follow?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, in times of financial constraint everyone has his favourite things that he would like to see done. The Government must look at the broad spectrum of the country's economic situation. It is in the light of that—although we want to do everything—that we are not galloping ahead at the moment.
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESMy Lords, does the noble Lord's Answer mean that the cleaning of the Palace of Westminster is now to be postponed, apparently indefinitely? This is the greatest of our national institutions in a great many respects. It is a place which people come to in order to admire and to see. The noble Lord's Answer is alarmingly casual in view of the needs of the situation.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I understand that the noble and learned Lord's Government did precisely what we are doing now—they postponed it for reasons of cost. I do not think that we are doing anything particularly different from what noble Lords opposite did.