§ Lord HATCH of LUSBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what answer they have given to the request of the Zimbabwe Government for special aid to assist in land resettlement.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, we have confirmed to the Zimbabwe Government that we are prepared to contribute to a programme of land acquisition and development for resettlement from within the £75 million of aid which my noble friend announced on 15th April.
§ Lord HATCH of LUSBYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that his noble friend the Leader of the House publicly declared two weeks ago that the total amount that would be needed in Zimbabwe over the next three or four years was of the order of £750 million? Where is the rest of the 90 per cent. likely to come from and what are the British Government doing to secure it?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, there are, of course, a large number of other aid donors in the world, including some of the institutions that are established for that purpose. I very much hope that large additional sums will come from those sources, but we have done as much as we can.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, have the Government made any further progress in persuading our closest friends and allies to join in the very necessary operation of rehabilitating Zimbabwe? Would Her Majesty's Government agree that land settlement in Zimbabwe could make an extremely important contribution not only to that country's economic progress but to political stability generally in central and southern Africa?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I agree about the importance of land settlement in Zimbabwe. The noble Lord will recall that that matter was specifically referred to at the Lancaster House conference and special provision made there. As for persuading other countries to contribute to Zimbabwe's needs, the noble Lord will recall that the United States and a number of other countries have already announced aid programmes to Zimbabwe. Indeed, it is planned to hold an aid donors' conference later this year or early next, and we shall be actively encouraging donors to participate in that.
§ Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLSMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that it will seem unfair to some that the wider question should be tied to the specific Question on the Order Paper? The land settlement contribution was part of the £75 million that was agreed, and any other claims which may be justified no doubt can later be taken into con-consideration on their merit. However, is my noble friend aware that to tie the overriding general question to a specific one which has already been met is not, I think, in keeping with the spirit behind those who supported the agreement that was settled with Zimbabwe at the time of the talks?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I am not sure if I entirely followed the drift of my noble friend's question, but certainly I think the sum of money we have been able to make available for Zimbabwe is not ungenerous.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, may I be permitted to support what my two noble friends have asked for? The noble Lord the Leader of the House has made a remarkable contribution for which we would all congratulate him, but is the 1941 Minister aware that, without the necessary finance, there will be a lot of trouble there? There is already a great deal of unemployment, and I observe from the press—I do not know if it is accurate—that there has been some turbulence, and we must try to avoid that. Is the noble Lord aware that, if we can put Zimbabwe on its feet by land settlement, the necessary finance and whatever else is required, that will he a contribution not only to Zimbabwe but to all the African countries?
§ Lord TREFGARNEThe noble Lord is quite right, my Lords, but one should not forget that Zimbabwe is now an independent nation; it is up to us to do what we can to assist, but only with the knowledge and agreement of the new Zimbabwe Government. We have a large aid programme, to which I have already referred; we have a substantial training programme, a military aid programme, and there are other matters too. I think we have done pretty well.
§ Lord CARVERMy Lords, would the Minister perhaps ask his noble friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether one of the lessons he learned as a very successful Minister for the Navy and Secretary of State for Defence was that one should not spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar? Would he agree that, after the remarkable success of the Lancaster House conference, for which the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs deserves enormous personal credit, it would be a tragedy if that were prejudiced as a result of, in this House I will say, apparently the less than enthusiastic attitude—I very nearly said mean—of the Government towards aid to lesser developed countries?
§ Lord TREFGARNEI do not think that is true at all, my Lords. Our aid programme has to be tailored to our resources. The aid programme which we inherited from our predecessors could not in any circumstances have been sustained. What we have done for Zimbabwe, which comes not only from the margins that were available within the aid programme but additional funds that were made available by the Treasury, is very generous by any criterion and, indeed, will he one of our largest programmes in Africa. None of our expenditure programmes can be exempted 1942 from our policy of maintaining public expenditure generally.
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVI ES of HASTOEMy Lords, if the noble Lord thinks he can substantiate that remark about the programme which this Government inherited from us not being able to be implemented, may I ask whether he is aware that it was very carefully planned and was by no means extravagant? Is he not yet aware of the need, for the sake of our own industry, to create places abroad which can buy from us what we have to sell?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the fact is that the programme we inherited from our predecessors could not have been sustained, as I said, because the money was simply not available.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, following the question asked by my noble friend Lord Goronwy-Roberts, may I ask the Minister whether he would agree that a major co-operative effort is now necessary in Zimbabwe in view of its strategic position? While welcoming yesterday's decision of West Germany, however limited, and that of the United States and the efforts of our own Government, may I ask whether they are not inadequate to deal with the war-torn situation in Zimbabwe? Would it be possible to get the European Community, our allies of the West, and perhaps even the Security Council of the United Nations, to take joint action in this crisis where immediate aid is needed?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, we have of course made a certain amount of immediate aid available; £7 million of reconstruction aid, £500,000 for joint funding through the voluntary agencies and a number of technical assistance teams. At the same time, we are doing everything we can to mobilise international opinion and international donors generally to do what they can, as well.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, with the indulgence of the House may I ask the noble Lord to draw the attention of his noble friend the Foreign Secretary—I am sure that it is not necessary to draw the attention of the Leader of the House—to the implications of these exchanges that this is not just a question 1943 of bilateral aid, important though that is? It is a matter of high policy in an area of the world whose stability is as important to it as it is to us in this country and in the West generally.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite right in what he says, but it is still necessary for us to tailor our aid programme to our resources.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, in view of the role played by the Commonwealth in securing the independence of Zimbabwe, would it not be possible now to have another small Commonwealth conference in order to obtain agreement on joint projects for securing the independence, politically and economically?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, there are a number of international institutions which will, we hope, be providing aid to Zimbabwe, and of course the Commonwealth can play an important role in them.
§ The LORD PRESIDENT of the COUNCIL (Lord Soames)My Lords, in view of the fact that we have spent 10 minutes on this Question, I suggest that we move on; I am very sorry.