HL Deb 01 July 1980 vol 411 cc219-22

2.40 p.m.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper, and in so doing I would venture, if I may, to draw the attention of the House to the fact that, no doubt owing to my atrocious handwriting, the Question has not been reproduced altogether as intended. The words towards the end of the Question should not be, is a fair way to Greek membership of the Community", but should be, is to give a fair wind to Greek membership of the Community". I trust that the noble Baroness will not be misled in her reply by this hiccough.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they would agree that charging Greek students very heavy "full cost" fees for 1980 when from 1st January 1981 such students along with students from other EEC countries, will only pay fees chargeable to home students is a fair way to Greek membership of the Community.

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Baroness Young)

My Lords, the intention is that Greek students should be treated as EEC students and thus qualify for the home rate of fee with effect from 1st September 1981. I think it is fair and reasonable that the concession should apply in the first full academic year after Greece becomes a member of the European Community.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. However, does she not in her heart of hearts agree that this cheeseparing, unimaginative and unwelcoming attitude is typical of the Government's whole approach to the difficult problems presented by overseas students in this country?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I am very well aware of the view of the House on the matter of overseas students' fees and the difficulties that have arisen from it. Like other Members of the Government, I wish that it was not necessary to embark on these kinds of economy, but the fact is that it is. We have taken this decision, which we believe to be a fair one, because it will mean a saving of about £l.5 million.

Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLS

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the EEC itself may not appreciate a Member Parliament anticipating what is not yet a fact? Does my noble friend agree that in strict terms of adhering to the letter of a contract—which is the only way to make it really effective and worthwhile—preferences should not be given until entitlement applies through the contract having been fulfilled? We ought not to anticipate something that will not be a fact until the date on which the preferences will come into force.

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for that intervention, because, of course, once Greece becomes a full member of the EEC, then the home rate of fees will apply.

Lord MAYBRAY-KING

My Lords, since Greece will become a full member in January 1981, could not the Government be generous and include the academic year 1980–81, instead of starting at the academic year 1981–82?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, the fact is that tuition fees are normally fixed in advance for a full academic year. That is why the concession to Greek students will be given in the first full academic year after the accession of Greece to the EEC.

Lord CARADON

In this connection, my Lords, can the noble Baroness tell us whether any decision has been taken following the very urgent representations made to the Lord Privy Seal when he was recently in Cyprus on behalf of the Cypriot students?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I think that is another question, and if the noble Lord would put down a Question on that point I should he happy to answer it.

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, if I may return to the previous answer given by the noble Baroness, she said that "normally" fees had to be paid for a whole year. I remember the last time this matter arose. Is the noble Baroness aware that on that occasion many noble Lords in all parts of the House asked whether this could not be varied, and that if the Government could not go the whole way perhaps students could he required to pay the full rate for the first three months but have their fees varied from the moment when Greece was in the EEC? I am sure there is support for that in all parts of the House.

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, it is true that this precise point was raised when this matter was discussed on an earlier occasion, and I accept that some tuition fees are sometimes collected in termly instalments. However, there is an increasing tendency to collect them in advance for the very practical reason that sometimes there is the non-payment of fees by some students and it is extremely difficult to collect them later on.

Lord MONSON

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the majority of taxpayers in this country see no reason why they should subsidise students from any EEC country, and take the view that if there are to be any subsidies they should go to the poorest students from the poorest countries?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, this is an agreement that we have reached in regard to students coming from the EEC, and of course it would be quite wrong in those circumstances to discriminate against Greek students in respect of arrangements that have been made for students from other members of the EEC.