HL Deb 30 January 1980 vol 404 cc840-3

2.47 p.m.

Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what prospects there are for an exchange of diplomatic representatives between the United Kingdom and Albania.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, successive British Governments have made clear that they would be glad to find a way round the obstacles which have so far prevented a resumption of relations.

Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I think it would be satisfactory if we concentrated on getting a representation there: not necessarily an ambassador, but, anyway, a representative, in what is a key harbour in that part of the Mediterranean and the Adriatic, especially in view of the foreign situation and the rather "dicey" position in the Balkans.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I would agree with my noble friend that representation at full ambassadorial level might not be appropriate in this case; but I should say that the Albanians have still not paid the compensation awarded to Britain by the International Court of Justice in 1949 in respect of the Corfu Channel incident.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, while going along with the Minister with regard to the money owed to British nationals by the Albanian Government, would he not agree that this is perhaps a very suitable time for us to take a new initiative towards restoring full diplomatic relations with this small but strategically vital country in the Balkans, particularly in view of the excellent relations it enjoys with its neighbours to the South, Greece, and to the North, Yugoslavia?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I would agree with that, but I would make just one point. The noble Lord said that it was money owed to British nationals. It is in fact money owed to the British Government.

Baroness ELLIOT of HARWOOD

My Lords, 1949 is a very long time ago. As events change with such rapidity, would it not really be wise for Her Majesty's Government to start, as the noble Lord, Lord Goronwy-Roberts, has suggested, an initiative, but with the intention of coming to some compromise over the money? My Lords, 1949 is a very long time ago now. Masses of debts have been wiped out since 1949.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, we shall not be inflexible in this matter, but I should perhaps remind the House that in the incident that I referred to 44 British sailors were killed.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware—or, if he is not, he could find out—that we are still owing for the Battle of Waterloo? On this business of the national debt, if anybody owes anybody anything, it is to the British people that these things are owed.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, we are not proposing to re-open the question of the Battle of Waterloo; but with respect to this outstanding matter I have said that we are prepared to be flexible.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, could I press my noble friend a little further? I have visited the graves of these seamen and I know how acutely their relations must feel; but we must remember also that this was at the end of a hard-pressing war in which they, themselves, were making great sacrifices to bring about peace and to avoid a third world war. I cannot help feeling that the initiative should come from the new Government in these circumstances to get in touch with the Albanian Government and to try to resolve this difficulty which has stood between us for too long.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, we shall bear in mind what my noble friend has said.

Viscount ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, will the noble Lord not agree that a very good start in this matter, and possibly the best thing that we can do for the Albanians, is for Her Majesty's Government to declare that we are very willing to join in any "Hands off Albania!" movement; but only if the Albanians wish us to do so?

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, is the noble Lord saying that this matter is the sole reason for our not resuming diplomatic relations? If not, can he give us any reasons why we should not do so?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I did not say that that was the sole reason. We still have to determine that the Albanians themselves want to establish relations.

Viscount ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, we have not yet had an answer.

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, as we seem frequently to be lending money, free of interest, which we do not expect to get paid back, could we not lend the Albanians the money with which to repay us?

Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY

My Lords, since we hold in this country some £8 million frozen money of Albania, would it not be easier to settle this matter if we had a representative who could talk to the Albanians than to remain at a distance?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, it is true that there is a quantity of gold held by the Tripartite Commission for Restitution of Monetary Gold. I have no doubt that the Albanians are anxious to have it back.

Viscount ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, would the noble Lord please answer the supplementary question that I put to him, as to whether it would not be a good idea, as a start to any relations and possibly to encourage such relations, to start by declaring our happiness to join in any "Hands off Albania!" movement if they wished us to do so?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am not sure what the noble Viscount means by a "Hands off Albania!" movement. We have no designs on that country.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, will the noble Lord say what he means when he says that he will bear it in mind? Does that mean he is doing something, or nothing?

Lord TREFGARNE

The noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, has much more experience in parliamentary expressions than I have. I am sure that he knows the meaning as well as I do.