§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will congratulate Pope John Paul II on his New Year appeal to all nations to end the nuclear arms race during the 1980s and assure him that they will co-operate with the Vatican and United Nations Member States to achieve the fulfilment of this aim.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the Government welcome Pope John Paul's expression of concern about the arms race. We have made clear our continuing commitment to work internationally for realistic and verifiable measures of disarmament.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, while appreciating that reply, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that many of us who are not Catholics revere the Pope for his leadership in this matter? Is there not hope, with millions of Catholics in the world, for the fulfilment of General Eisenhower's prophecy, that the time will come when the peoples will so demand an end to the arms race that Governments will be compelled to agree? It has been announced today that Her Majesty the Queen is to meet the Pope in Rome in the autumn. Would she convey the congratulations of the Government to the Pope?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I share and agree with what the noble Lord said about the Pope. I am not a Catholic either, but I have the highest 670 regard for him, as the noble Lord does, and I certainly share the hope that general disarmament can one day be achieved. But we think the way forward is by selective and effective measures which, above all, can be properly verified, and so far while that has not proved impossible it has proved very difficult. With regard to the Queen's forthcoming visit to Rome, the audience which Her Majesty will have with His Holiness will be entirely private and I cannot forecast what will take place between them.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, would the noble Lord care to ask His Holiness the Pope what his opinion is of the example we are setting by spending £1,000 million on modernising the Polaris missile fleet?
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, in view of the fact that a Geneva committee is considering the recommendations of the Special Assembly of the United Nations and will be reporting in 1982 to the United Nations, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government will support in that committee the proposals for disarmament which have been made in order to fulfil the Pope's hope?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, we will support any proposal which is likely to be effective and which can be properly verified.