HL Deb 20 February 1980 vol 405 cc738-40

2.50 p.m.

Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they were satisfied that all modern equipment on Post Office premises, such as that for sorting different categories of mail, was being fully used and that there was no extravagant manning before they authorised the recent increases in postal charges.

Lord LYELL

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government believe that there is scope for considerable improvement in postal efficiency and productivity. Questions of manning levels and of the implementation of the mechanisation programme are operational matters for the Post Office Corporation. The Government have no formal powers to authorise or to decline to authorise increases in postal tariffs. The Government did however accept that the recent postal charges increases would be necessary if the postal business were to achieve its financial objectives.

Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask whether it means that at the end of the day the Post Office is entitled to charge what it likes, whether or not it is efficient in its working?

Lord LYELL

My Lords, to answer the latter part of my noble friend's question, the Post Office's main objective is to achieve increased efficiency and within those parameters the Post Office has the power to charge what it feels reasonable to achieve its financial and efficiency targets.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

My Lords, is the Minister aware that if postal charges for letters go much higher there will be no need for scientific machines to sort them because there will be so few letters going through the post that some of us who were born in the mountains will have to relearn Indian smoke signals and yodelling?

Lord LYELL

My Lords, those of us in your Lordships' House who have been listening to the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, have been observing these signals for many years. We have been attracted and charmed by them over the years. The Post Office is looking at all kinds of methods of improving its efficiency, but I think the House would not wish to go into the realms of all your Lordships' imagination.

Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of a very bad case in Birmingham, about which previous Ministers have spoken in this House, in which expensive machinery stood idle for months, if not years, because of manning difficulties? Can my noble friend say whether it is still idle, or is it now working, because that is a notorious example?

Lord LYELL

My Lords, I have noticed that one branch sorting office has particular troubles with mechanisation as described by my noble friend, though I am not aware it is Birmingham. Perhaps I may be allowed to communicate with my noble friend by letter—dare I say by internal letter within your Lordships' House, which tends to be as efficient as the Post Office? I will endeavour to find out and inform my noble friend.

Lord WALLACE of COSLANY

My Lords, can the noble Lord state whether it would in the future be possible for Post Office charges to be investigated under the provisions of the Competition Bill?

Lord LYELL

My Lords, I can inquire about that, but I have no information about it at the moment. There are winged messengers behind me, but I would not rely upon them.

Baroness FAITHFULL

My Lords, may I ask the Minister why it is that in areas of unemployment there are vacancies in the Post Office service?

Lord LYELL

My Lords, I think this is a matter for the Post Office management in that it is seeking to attract labour where there are areas of labour shortages in the Post Office.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the supplementary question from the Front Bench opposite represents a considerable feeling in this country that it might well be to our advantage to break the Post Office's monopoly?

Lord LYELL

My Lords, my right honourable friend in another place is considering this particular point, and is awaiting a report on the breaking of the Post Office's mail monopoly. I understand that my right honourable friend will be receiving a report in the very near future—and I am told that the indications are that it will be within the next three months.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Post Office is not alone in the increase of service charges, and that it is due to the high content of labour in doing the work? I think an examination will show that in many cases other service charges have risen far more than those of the Post Office.

Lord LYELL

My Lords, the noble Lord is in part perfectly correct; in some cases the reply to his point is, yes, while in other instances what he suggests is not the case. The Post Office management is at all times attempting to maximise the use of its available finances, mechanised equipment, and indeed labour.