§ 3.12 p.m.
§ Lord AIREDALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the 70th Report of the Commissioners of HM Customs and Excise (Cmnd. 7807), which reports an increase in the consumption of tobacco, albeit accompanied by a reduction in tar yield, they remain satisfied with their measures to discourage cigarette smoking.
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEMy Lords, the Government cannot be satisfied with the progress made to date to reduce the prevalence of cigarette smoking and are committed to achieving further reductions in the habit in order to reduce the toll of premature death and illness which it causes. My right honourable friends the Health Ministers are currently engaged in negotiations with 317 the tobacco industry on measures to follow the existing voluntary agreement, which expires shortly.
§ Lord AIREDALEMy Lords, I am obliged for that Answer. Is it the case that cigarette smoking is on the increase among women? If so, is the campaign, such as it is, being directed particularly towards women?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNENo, my Lords, there is no evidence to that effect. I shall try not to mislead the House, but the figures are a little complicated in this respect. From 1974 until 1977 the consumption of cigarettes, by weight, steadily reduced. It also reduced by the numbers of cigarettes smoked. In 1978 the weight increased and the numbers went down slightly. Moreover, during that period the percentage of males who smoked dropped from 51 per cent. to 45 per cent. and of women who smoked from 41 per cent. to 37 per cent.
§ Viscount HANWORTHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I now find it extremely difficult to get a smoking carriage on the railways, and that when I go to a meeting or a conference I very often find that I cannot smoke because there is nobody else smoking? Would the noble Lord take the view that possibly it is only the young who are increasing the smoking habit, and would he think it wise to direct more attention to them than to those of us who have smoked all our lives?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEMy Lords, I certainly agree that it is more important to stop the young smoking than it is to stop some of us who continue to smoke, as I do myself. I am sure that, speaking from this Dispatch Box, I should suggest that everybody in this House who smokes should stop doing so.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I should like to press the noble Lord on the question of the amount of consumption by women. He quite rightly says, if I may be permitted to say so, that the number of women smoking represents 37 per cent. However, is it not a fact that the 37 per cent. of women who are smoking, are smoking many more cigarettes per person than they did when the previous research 318 was carried out? Is it not also a fact that the increased consumption is, if not entirely due—and I would not suggest that for one moment—partly due to the fact that women are smoking more cigarettes?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Wells-Pestell, knows a great deal about this subject and he has been dealing with these questions over many years. I believe that he is quite right in what he says, but it is also true to say that the men who are smoking are inclined to be smoking more. The average number of cigarettes smoked by those males and females continuing to smoke has increased in recent years.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERMy Lords, is not the most effective method of reducing consumption to be found in the Budget?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEYes, my Lords, but I am sure that my noble friend does not expect me to make any comment on that.
§ Lord DERWENTMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether the research on this question is in any way reasonably accurate?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNENo, my Lords, I cannot.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, will the noble Lord admit that the large number of cigarettes now smoked by women is the result of the economic strain placed upon them by the Government's policies?
§ The Earl of CORK and ORRERYMy Lords, I should like to ask my noble friend and kinsman whether he thinks that the Government might consider being a little more specific in the slogans that they issue, bearing in mind that it is a question not merely of lung cancer that is involved, but of respiratory diseases and diseases of the circulation?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEMy Lords, I think that what the Government are trying to do is to stop people smoking, period.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that smoking is only one of many vices, and that if he runs a campaign to dissuade women from smoking they may resort to other vices which are less acceptable?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEMy Lords, that is an excellent point.
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEMy Lords, I think that I have already said that I am trying to put across the Government's view that neither men nor women should smoke if we can arrange it.
§ Lord MISHCONMy Lords, in those circumstances, is the noble Lord prepared to say here and now that his Front Bench, in order to encourage the Government's campaign, will, as from this minute, collectively and individually renounce smoking?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNEMy Lords, I am afraid my hearing is getting very bad!
§ Lord AIREDALEMy Lords, if it is the case, as I think the noble Lord is saying, that those who do smoke are smoking more, is it a fact that, although they are smoking cigarettes of a lower tar yield, they are smoking more of them in order to get back to their accustomed daily intake of nicotine? If that is so, is anything being achieved by the lower tar yield?
§ Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNENo, my Lords, I think that there is too much said about this. It must be right to reduce the tar content, but it is very important not to reduce it too quickly because otherwise people immediately reach for a stronger cigarette. That is why, in the arrangements that have been made between the DHSS and the tobacco industry, we have tried to do this gradually. Negotiations are now taking place for a further voluntary agreement with the industry, as the present agreement runs out in a few months time.