AFGHANISTAN: MOTION OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT (Hansard, 5 February 1980)

§ Baroness ELLIOT of HARWOOD
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have noted and warmly approve of the terms of the resolution which the European Parliament passed on Wednesday, 16th January. The United Kingdom was associated with the statement made by the President of the Council of Ministers to the European Parliament that day.

§ Baroness ELLIOT of HARWOOD
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Is there nothing more that can be done by us, and by the European Parliament, to impress upon the Soviet Union the error of their ways? Also, in view of the fact that on 16th January the United Nations passed a unanimous resolution condemning the Russians again for their Afghanistan behaviour, is there anything more that we can do?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
Yes, my Lords; indeed there is. Referring to what has been decided in the Community, the Council has decided to cancel the 1979 Community food aid programme to Afghanistan, and has also decided to contribute 17.7 million dollars to the 1162 UNHCR appeal for 55 million dollars for aid for Afghan refugees.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister whether he agrees that it is all very well to pass resolutions and indulge in condemnation of the Soviet Union's activities, but it must be supplemented by adequate means of defence for the purpose of deterrent against possible invasion of Europe itself? Is he not aware that there are some of the countries of the Nine who, for reasons best known to themselves—and I apologise for asking this question, but I am not fully acquainted with all the details, nor do I know of anybody who is—do not trouble themselves very much about adequate defence; in particular, the French in association with NATO? Is is not about time that we stopped a lot of the humbug about economic unity and understood that economic unity, if it does exist, is not of much value unless it is backed by adequate unity in defence?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, I absolutely agree with the noble Lord. He said, first, that fine words were no substitute for adequate defence—if I am paraphrasing him accurately—and I would entirely agree with that, too. The European Community is not primarily concerned with defence matters, but NATO most certainly is, and the noble Lord will have heard with as much satisfaction as I did of the decisions taken by NATO, about, for example, the modernisation of the nuclear forces, which were announced just before Christmas.

§ Lord GLADWYN
My Lords, would the Government regard it as rather a pity that this resolution of the European Parliament was not apparently supported by the Socialist Group?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
Yes, my Lords.

§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether it is not a pity, in view of the declaration by the French and German Governments with regard to Afghanistan, that we were not invited to join them in the same declaration?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, I am afraid that I did not quite catch what my noble friend said.

§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY
My Lords, there was a declaration by the French and German Governments about the USSR removing themselves from Afghanistan. It seems a pity, as we are an important member of the European Community, that we should not have been included in that declaration.

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, the declaration by the Italian Foreign Minister, on behalf of all the Foreign Ministers of the European Community—

§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY
It was the French and German Governments.

§ Lord TREFGARNE
Yes, my Lords, I heard my noble friend—was very satisfactory, and I would draw my noble friend's attention to it.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, can the Minister help us in this matter: Can he tell us more about the response of the Community—that is, the Commission—to the Motion passed by the European Parliament, particularly in the matter of exports at cut prices to the Soviet Union? Is it not a fact that, while the Community will not make up the shortfall in the delivery of grain resulting from the decision of the United States Government in that area, nevertheless the export of important cereals such as barley is to go ahead apace, in very significant quantities and at greatly reduced prices?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, think that the noble Lord is taking an unduly pessimistic view of what is proposed. We should certainly like to see an end to EEC subsidies on exports of butter, sugar, meat and other items to the Soviet Union, and we are pursuing this in Brussels. But the Commission have said that in present circumstances there will be no further exports of, for example, butter, to the Soviet Union at the previous low price level.

§ Lord HALE
My Lords, is it not a fact that, until the last week or two, the Government have been rightly calling attention to the very serious economic situation in this country? Does the noble Lord really think that by spending more money on arms, which is largely the 1164 cause of our economic difficulties, he is not going to make much worse the real economic difficulty which is threatening us with just as grave consequences as the foreign situation?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, no, I am afraid that I do not agree with that at all. The fact is that if we do not prepare to defend ourselves properly there will be nothing left that is worth defending.

§ Lord BETHELL
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the European Parliament's resolution went considerably further than any statement which was made on behalf of the Nine Foreign Ministers? Can he give an indication of what efforts have been made within the political co-operation machinery of the Nine to make further progress along the lines of the European Parliament's resolution? Is there any proposal to discuss this resolution—high technology, the Olympic Games, export restitutions—among the Nine Foreign Ministers who are meeting today?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, we certainly agree that the resolution passed by the European Parliament, which is the subject of the question referred to by my noble friend, was very satisfactory, and I can confirm that all the matters referred to by my noble friend are the subject of continuing discussions at the highest level.

Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTON
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in the days when we used to have an Empire in these parts our peace was continually being disturbed by mad mullahs who were being patronised by a disorderly Afghan Government and that the Russians, who now have an Empire in these parts, have been suffering from similar troubles? We intervened on two occasions with punitive Afghan wars and the Russians now seem to have done the same thing rather more efficiently. Would the noble Lord tell us what British interest is thereby affected?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord has not heard of the Persian Gulf.

§ Lord AVEBURY
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is an inconsistency in Community policy here? As the noble Lord has told us this afternoon, the Community has cancelled all food aid to Afghanistan because of Soviet intervention there, but has continued to grant food aid to Ethiopia where Soviet intervention has taken place on an equally obnoxious scale. Only this morning I received a letter from M. Cheysson, the European Community official in charge of these matters, saying that it is the intention of the Community to continue to send food aid to Ethiopia, notwithstanding the fact that it falls into the hands of the Ethiopian armed forces and not into the hands of the civilian population for whom it is intended, and thereby supports the Ethiopian war effort against the heroic freedom fighters of Eritrea.

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, I am not sure that I would use the same language as the noble Lord, but certainly our aim is to see that aid goes to those people who are in the greatest need.

Lord MORRIS
My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that concerted action by the Nine in boycotting the Olympic Games must be worth any number of resolutions and any number of protest notes?

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, it is not the boycott of the Olympic Games that we are seeking to achieve. We are seeking to move them from Moscow.