§ 2.38 p.m.
The LORD BISHOP of LONDONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government when they expect to give their views on the recommendations of the Goodman Committee on Charity Law and Voluntary Organisations, and of the Expendi- 1080 ture Committee of the House of Commons on the Charity Commissioners and their Accountability.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Belstead)My Lords, I must apologise for a long reply to the right reverend Prelate. On 24th January my right honourable friend the Home Secretary made the following announcement in reply to a Question in another place:
"The Government have considered the report by the Expenditure Committee on the Charity Commissioners and their Accountability published in September 1975 and have also taken into account the conclusions reached by Lord Goodman's Committee on Charity Law and Voluntary Organisations, which was set up by the National Council of Social Service and reported in December 1976.
"The Government appreciate the useful work done by both committees in examining a wide range of issues relating to charity law and administration. It is now over four years since the Expenditure Committee reported and three years since the Goodman Committee reported. Their proposals need to be viewed in the light of the Government's current policies.
"The Government recognise that charitable trusts occupy a special position in our law and that special privileges attach to charitable status. We believe that the concept of charity in the legal sense remains valid and useful since it both reflects and encourages a spirit of benefaction and public service whose continuance is of great importance to society. The Government do not consider that there is at present a need for changes in the law on charitable status or in the administrative practices relating to charities. We do, however, set great value on the contribution made by voluntary organisations and volunteers to the provisions of a wide range of services and facilities that are essential to the well-being of society. We are considering how best we may, within the present financial restraints, encourage the development of the voluntary sector as a whole, and in that context we are paying particular 1081 attention to the Goodman Committee's recommendations relating to fiscal matters."
The LORD BISHOP of LONDONMy Lords, while I thank the noble Lord for his Answer, does he appreciate that it will cause very great disappointment to the charities and to the Churches which are looking forward to the implementation of the recommendations of these two committees; and will he, in particular, note the very clear and unambiguous recommendation on the subject of political activities in pursuit of charitable objects and try to clarify the situation, since there is grave difficulty in the way of well-known, extensive charities because it is suggested that they are indulging in political activities?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, the right reverend Prelate did not mention the precise recommendations on which the Government had not announced particular action. If the right reverend Prelate had in mind fiscal matters, then, so far as the Goodman Committee recommendations on these are concerned, the Government are considering these and other proposals, including those put forward by a recent working party of the National Council of Social Service. So far as political activities by charities are concerned, in their annual report the Charity Commissioners have given guidance on the extent to which charities may engage in political activities; and the great majority of charities experienced no difficulty. I must say at this point that the Government do not believe that any legislation is required on that particular subject.
The LORD BISHOP of LONDONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Methodist conference at its last meeting in 1979 passed a resolution expressing concern at the Inland Revenue's reported refusal to allow covenant-giving to be used for the purpose of world development?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I was not aware of that. I should like to look at that point; and, if I feel that I ought to do so, to write to the right reverend Prelate about it.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, is the noble Lord not aware—he must be—that 1082 many organisations engaging in social welfare work find inevitably that there is a political aspect to their findings? To mention one such organisation, there is the Child Poverty Action Group. If one is concerned with case-work on behalf of families less well off than the average family, this must lead one to requests for political action which fall outside the allowed limits of charitable organisations. Is the noble Lord also aware that, conversely, organisations that are engaged in mostly political activities have found it possible, within the existing law, to form charitable bodies of an educational nature to fulfil part of their functions, and that in that manner a great deal of intellectual effort goes into finding ways around the present charity law—effort which might be diverted to more useful purposes if the Government had not a closed mind to changes of the kind that the right reverend Prelate has described?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, if the Government have a closed mind they are in good company, for charities law in its present form has existed since 1601. The Government do not believe that any change in the scope of charities as a legal concept is needed at the present time.
§ Lord CRAIGTONMy Lords, is the Minister aware that charities are having a very difficult time and there is one recommendation in the Goodman Report that I feel sure could be acted upon very easily: that is the shortening of the periods of covenants in order to give relief from taxation? That would be a very simple thing that the Chancellor of the Exchequer could do in another place.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I am aware of what my noble friend said. It was for that reason, among others, that in reply to the right reverend Prelate I said that the Government are considering not only the Goodman Committee's recommendations but other proposals, including those put forward by a recent working party of the National Council of Social Service.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is not this problem largely one of the developing countries in Africa and Indo-China as well as immigrant populations in this country? Is it not extraordinarily difficult to draw a margin between what 1083 the Charity Commissioners consider charity and what others consider as political action? Will the Government reconsider the decision they have made?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I honestly do not know what the noble Lord is referring to. As a general reply, if the noble Lord has a particular case in mind and cares to draw it to the attention of the House now, or to my attention in writing, I shall look into it as urgently as possible.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, the particular cases I have in mind are Oxfam, War on Want, and the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants, all of whom are having some difficulties in these respects.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, all I can say in reply is that the scope of charity is wide and my right honourable friend does not have the responsibility for the Charity Commissioners' handling of the individual cases. That makes it sound as though I believe the status quo is absolutely right. I believe that it is right, if I may say so, hearing in mind that the four heads for charitable purposes are very wide indeed.