Aid to Developing Countries

HL Deb 02 December 1980 vol 415 cc323-4

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what reply they have made to the representations of Oxfam, Christian Aid, and Catholic Aid for increased aid to developing countries and the charge that in this regard Britain's name has never been so low in many parts of the world.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, my noble friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary met representatives of the organisations referred to on 11th November. He explained again that our first priority is to get the economy right and that the aid programme cannot be immune from the necessary reductions in public expenditure. My noble friend rejected the assertion that Britain's image has been eroded. Most developing countries understand our situation.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, is it not the case that the cuts in overseas aid are nearly four times as great as the cuts in other public services? With regard to the question of Britain's name standing low abroad, is the noble Lord aware that all of us who have any contact with different parts of the world know that this statement is true? Has the noble Lord noted the moving protest on this subject by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have of course noted what the most reverend Primate has said on this matter, but the fact remains that we have to tailor our programme for aid, as indeed all our other programmes, in accordance with our resources.

Lord Goronwy-Roberts

My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether the Government are giving further consideration to the conclusions and recommendations of the Brandt Commission on this particular matter? —especially in view of the fact that throughout the world, not least in the developing countries, there is a widespread feeling that the Government's initial attention to the Brandt Report—a very prestigious and substantial document—was perfunctory in the extreme.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am not sure that I like the use of the word "perfunctory". I have in your Lordships' House made at least three speeches specifically on the report of the Brandt Commission, and certain of my honourable and right honourable friends have made similar speeches in another place, not to mention all the speeches that have been made by Government Ministers outside Parliament. We certainly regard the Brandt Commission's report as a most important document which deserves, and indeed has received, our closest attention.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, with reference to the Minister's statement—

Noble Lords

Order, order!

Earl Alexander of Tunis

My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House what steps are taken to ensure that money from Catholic Aid and various other charities goes to the right people in the developing countries? Is he aware that there is a saying that overseas aid is money from poor people in rich countries going to rich people in poor countries?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, that is a view, but it is the case that the charities referred to in the Question are reputable charities. As for the efficiency of their operations, I think that the noble Earl should direct his question to them.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, with reference to the Minister's statement that our economic position must be stabilised first, is he aware that one of the most moving memories of my life is of a speech before the First World War by Winston Churchill, in which he praised a ship in a storm going to the aid of another in wreck? Will the noble Lord say whether the report is correct that at the meeting referred to the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, stated that British aid, public and private, is second only to that of the United States? Does not the private aid include loans and investments on which interest and dividends are paid which are greater than all our annual aid?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, it is indeed the case that investment from private sources in the United Kingdom in third world countries is very substantial. Of course some of our public aid programme is on loan terms, as is the money that is provided by private sources. As to the noble Lord's reference to the speech of my late right honourable friend Mr. Churchill (or Sir Winston, as he became) about a ship in a storm, I would say that we must be careful that our ship does not go on the rocks.