§ 3.37 p.m.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary. The Statement is as follows:
"I have considered the full and clear report which I have had from the Chief Constable of the Avon and Somerset Constabulary, and I have placed in the Vote Office a memorandum containing an account of the disturbances, of the difficulties which faced the police, and of how they sought to deal with them.
"In the light of the memorandum, there will not, I believe, be dispute about the facts. What began as a normal operation into possible criminal offences, turned sharply and unexpectedly into serious public disorder. The memorandum also sets out the chief constable's conclusions and recommendations for future arrangements in his force area. A number of important lessons have been learned from this event. The chief constable has acknowledged frankly that there were points at which decisions might, with hindsight, have been taken differently. But he remains of the opinion that the decision to regroup his officers away from the area of St. Paul's was, in the face of great violence and extensive injuries to the police, a necessary step. In the light of his report, I understand the reasons for that decision, as, I am sure, will the House.
"There can be no excuse for the lawlessness which then followed. But we must ensure that, however quickly or fiercely public disorder may occur, the 1022 police are able swiftly to restore the peace and enforce the law.
"We must therefore concern ourselves with the more general lessons which must be learned from these events, not only for the efficiency of policing, but also for good community relations. There are three ways in which I believe we can best move forward.
"First, in this country we rightly wish the police to maintain order through traditional methods but, if that is so, police forces must be able to call rapidly on sufficient trained officers. I am, therefore, asking senior officials in my Department and Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary, in conjunction with the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis and the Association of Chief Police Officers in England and Wales, to examine thoroughly and urgently the arrangements for handling spontaneous public disorder. I shall publish the results of that review.
"But we must not look simply at the policing aspects of these events. We must look much more widely in our search for solutions to the underlying problem. Secondly, therefore, the Government particularly welcome the decision of the Select Committee on Home Affairs to look into racial disadvantage and, as a part of that work, to study the St. Paul's area of Bristol. We shall do all we can to help the Select Committee in this work.
"But action at local level is also essential. I welcome the decision of the Avon County Council and the Bristol City Council to come together to examine how best they can further help in strengthening good community relations in the area. Experts from all the Government Departments concerned will play a full part in this examination.
"Mr. Speaker, I am convinced that this three-fold approach is the best way to respond positively and constructively to these events."
My Lords, that was the Statement made by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary in another place.
§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAMMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble 1023 Lord, Lord Belstead, for repeating that Statement and for taking this early opportunity to keep the House informed, as he promised to do on 3rd April. Certainly, I would welcome the speed with which the police inquiry was instituted and carried out. Would the noble Lord the Minister accept that I also welcome the fact that there is to be this three-pronged investigation? It does, I think, go some way to meet some of the misgivings which some of us had in your Lordships' House on 3rd April about the adequacy of a police inquiry alone into this disturbing matter.
So far as the chief constable's report is concerned, that will obviously need further study. The memorandum referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, which is being made available to your Lordships, is a very lengthy one. At this stage I would just say this, if I may, and ask the Minister to accept it: In the particular circumstances of the situation on 2nd April, I would accept the chief constable's decision to regroup on that occasion. However—and I think this needs to be emphasised—it remains the case that we must not countenance what have been referred to as "no go" areas of any kind in this country.
Whatever else may be said, would the Minister also accept that there was clearly no lack of courage on the part of police officers when this incident took place?—including, if I may say so, the Chief Constable of Avon and Somerset who was on the scene from an early stage. I do not think we should overlook this, either: it is in fact a tribute to the police that there was no loss of life, nor indeed any serious injury sustained.
So far as the police study is concerned to examine as a matter of urgency arrangements for dealing with situations involving public disorder, I would ask the noble Lord the Minister to accept that we would welcome the fact that this is to be published, because it may well be that the conclusions arising out of this will be not just of local but of general application. While it is clearly essential that there should be support available for a police force from outside a particular area, I would ask the Minister whether he would agree that it is nevertheless absolutely essential that control should continue to 1024 be in the hands of those who know the area. I would ask him, too, whether he could confirm, even before these inquiries are further embarked upon, that nothing is contemplated in the nature of a national body here.
So far as the Select Committee investigations in another place are concerned, those are clearly to be welcomed. I am wondering whether the Minister can say if it is likely that some at least of those sessions might be in public, because if they were to be, no doubt many people, not only here in Parliament but throughout the country, would welcome the fact. So far as the local investigations by Avon County and the City of Bristol are concerned, would the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, accept that we would hope their report will be published? I would welcome the involvement of the Commission for Racial Equality, the Department of the Environment and other bodies. Again, it may well be here that there will be lessons to be drawn which are of wider than purely local application. Therefore, it would be particularly valuable if that report, too, could be published.
The noble Lord has said something about the wider implications of the events in Bristol on 2nd April. Misgivings about those were expressed in your Lordships' House on the following day. I would ask him now whether he could confirm that some of the questions and concerns that were mentioned during the course of our exchanges on 3rd April are among the questions which will be covered in one way or another by one or other of these inquiries—such as the underlying causes and indeed the fact that, as we heard earlier, there were warnings from local leaders of difficulties arising before the events of 2nd April. It would be valuable—indeed, I would suggest, essential—if those fears could be allayed and those questions answered. I would venture one further point. Would the Minister also accept—this is something which has been mentioned before, but it needs re-emphasising now—that there is a great need to tackle even more urgently than before the problems of the inner cities and to maintain expenditure on urban programmes?
§ Lord WIGODERMy Lords, it is clearly a matter of the utmost gravity when the police have to abandon control 1025 of an area in one of our major cities for some four to five hours, during which some 49 police officers are injured and I think, 21 police vehicles severely damaged, with 13 premises attacked and looted.
Arising out of this matter, may I raise three very brief issues with the noble Lord? First, it is clear from the chief constable's memorandum that this was in no sense a race riot. It appears to have been, if anything, an anti-police riot. Is it not correct that those people in positions of responsibility who spend their time in hysterical abuse of the police force as an institution have very much to answer for when a disturbance of this sort takes place?—though one must add with regret that perhaps disturbances of this sort are exactly what they hope will arise.
Secondly, is it not clear from the chief constable's memorandum that much of the difficulty arose here as a result of an unfortunate decision by the police officers concerned to seek to remove a damaged vehicle at a time when the violence had quietened down? In saying that, I am very much aware that it is easy to make criticisms in the calm light of day in your Lordships' House of a decision taken on the spur of the moment at a time of crisis.
Thirdly, do the Government accept the chief constable's observation that it is essential that, in situations of this sort, the local police community relations officer should be consulted in advance? May I also ask the noble Lord whether he feels that it is sufficiently recognised in the police force that that position is one of the highest responsibility? It is not a dead-end position, but one which should be held by officers of the greatest ability, because it plays the most important role in seeking to preserve the peace on occasions such as this.
§ 3.50 p.m.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for their response to this Statement. If I may reply to the noble Lord, Lord Boston, certainly the points which were made in your Lordships' House on the occasion of the first Statement on this subject have been very much taken into account. Your Lordships may have noticed from the Statement which I have just made that the review of police contingency arrange- 1026 ments—the first prong of the three-pronged approach—is a review which my right honourable friend has undertaken to publish.
I agree with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Boston, about the bearing of the police in this matter. I would like to make it crystal clear that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has full confidence in the chief constable. There were reasons for the withdrawal of the police from the area for a time, but I think your Lordships would prefer to look yourselves at the memorandum, to reach your own conclusions, and to read the conclusions of the chief constable which are very frankly set out.
Lord Boston asked me about the making public of the deliberations of both the Home Affairs Select Committee and also the meeting at local authority level. Obviously this will be a matter for a Select Committee of another place, and for the local authorities concerned, as to exactly what they want to say in public. I am most grateful to both noble Lords for accepting that this is a sensible way to proceed. I think that for the two local authorities concerned, the county council and the city council, to come together in this way with other agencies, which incidentally will also include the Manpower Services Commission, is a valuable and sensible way to proceed.
The noble Lord, Lord Wigoder, asked whether it was the fact that this was not a race riot. The answer in broad terms is, yes, the noble Lord is correct in that assumption. It was not what we would call a race riot. Was it an unfortunate decision, the noble Lord put to me, that an attempted removal of a police car occurred, which perhaps started the trouble off again and led perhaps to its escalation? I think the noble Lord would want to read the memorandum on this and to see how the matters in this very difficult night in fact went from one step to another. Clearly that was a step in the story. Thirdly, Lord Wigoder put to me whether the local police community relations officer should not be consulted in advance in matters of this sort? The answer is, yes, and the chief constable in his very frank report, in the memorandum in the Printed Paper Office, says as much.
§ Baroness PHILLIPSMy Lords, having had the opportunity to work with the 1027 Avon and Somerset police in both crime prevention and the juvenile liaison bureau, I want it on the record that this is an area which has had particularly imaginative schemes for dealing with both juvenile delinquency and community relations. As the police force has had some notable successes, I feel this to be the moment when these should be recorded in this House.
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness. While we on this side of the House welcome the inquiries which are to be made, both parliamentary and local, into the underlying problems, may I ask the Minister what positive action the Government are taking in the meantime to tackle what is at the root of much of the trouble in urban areas with a large black or coloured population; namely, the persistent level of above-average unemployment among the youths in those areas? Has not the increase in unemployment since the Government have been in office exacerbated the problem very seriously?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I would not necessarily accept that on a local basis. When the noble and learned Lord, with his experience, takes a view on a matter of this sort, I would not take it upon myself to say that he is wrong. So far as a particular place of the size and importance as Bristol is concerned, however, surely your Lordships' House would want to find out what at local level the elected representatives think. It is because my right honourable friend the Home Secretary wants to find out what is really thought on this as well as on other points by the county council and the city council, in consultation with other agencies which I have mentioned, including, as I said, the Manpower Services Commission, that I think it would be right to wait for the result of those local deliberations.
§ Baroness MACLEOD of BORVEMy Lords, in view of the very worrying escalation of the carrying of offensive weapons by people of all ages, but mostly by the young, I wonder whether my noble friend the Minister can tell the House how many of those arrested carried offensive weapons?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I am afraid I cannot answer my noble friend's question. There is no question but that a great deal of the damage and the injuries was probably done by missiles which were thrown. All I think I ought to say in reply to my noble friend, as I cannot answer the specific question she has put to me, is that the numbers have changed somewhat since I reported to the House on the first occasion. We do now know that 22 police officers were injured; 27 more had minor injuries, and 10 members of the public were also injured.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister to explain why he has referred in his Statement to the "underlying causes"? I notice that the Members of the Opposition have referred to the "underlying causes", but seem to be reluctant to go further than make reference to them, when everybody in your Lordships' House is aware that those underlying causes are, first of all, unemployment; secondly, social conditions; thirdly, the abominable housing conditions in these areas. What is being done in the matter, as it appears to me, is to deal with it superficially by transferring the social problem to the police. Why should that happen? Why should the police he used to deal with social problems wherever there is discontent which expresses itself by looting or assaults upon the police? This is not the responsibility of the police. Although we call upon the police to suppress disorder whenever it is possible to do so, it is a matter for the Government to delve deeply into this issue of underlying causes. Why are we so reluctant to talk about it? There seems to be some hesitancy. I do not share that hesitancy. I have seen this sort of thing happening many years ago on the Clyde—long before we accepted vast numbers of coloured people from Asia and elsewhere—because of unemployment, because of discontent, because of poverty. These are the underlying causes and I cannot in any aspect of Government policy detect any real effort to eradicate these problems.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, so far as the police are concerned, the point of the Statement is that the police are looking into their own contingency arrangements for the future. The police inquiry has nothing to do with the social conditions 1029 to which the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, has drawn attention. The noble Lord asked me what the Government are doing about the social conditions in the area. Grants under Section 11 of the Local Government Act are paid to Avon County Council, which is responsible, for instance, for education in Bristol. In the last year grants amounted to £400,000, mainly to aid expenditure on the salaries of teachers specially employed to meet the needs of Commonwealth immigrants and their children; and the noble Lord will, I am sure, be glad to hear that grants under Section 11 to Avon in the current financial year are being increased.
So far as the urban programme is concerned, which over many years now has been specifically designed to try to relieve the kind of conditions which the noble Lord has been explaining to the House, the Government recognise the extent and depth of the problems facing people of all races in deprived parts of our inner cities. For that reason, the Government have maintained the level of resources allocated to the urban programme which helps those parts of our cities which are facing the most acute social and economic problems. It is not the case that the Government are not sympathetic to the kind of problems which the noble Lord has outlined to your Lordships' House.
§ Lord KILMARNOCKMy Lords, while it is obviously necessary that a study should be made of police contingency arrangements for emergencies of this nature, will the noble Lord give an assurance to the House that this will not become the thin end of the wedge for the establishment of a national paramilitary type of police force, on the lines which exist in other European countries; for example, in France and Spain? I think that the noble Lord, Lord Boston, made some reference to this, and I do not believe that we had a reply.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I do not think that this matter arises from the Statement which I have made. It was for that reason that I let go that point which the noble Lord, Lord Boston, made.
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESWith respect, it may arise by reason of the reference in the Statement to the fact that the Chief Inspector of Constabulary, the Commis- 1030 sioner of Police of the Metropolis and the Association of Chief Police Officers in England and Wales are all going to be involved. This may have caused the noble Lord the anxiety that he has expressed.
§ Lord BELSTEADI am so sorry, my Lords. I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for helping me in this matter. The reason why there is this meeting together of people on a national basis for what has happened in local circumstances, is that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has an overall responsibility for the efficiency of policing in this country, and it is my right honourable friend who has asked these representatives to come together to look at contingency arrangements for policing against spontaneous outbreaks of violence and trouble in England and Wales.