§ 2.56 p.m.
§ Lord BRAYEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether security measures at Heathrow Airport could be overhauled and increased to prevent theft of and pilferage from passengers' baggage.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the prevention of theft and pilferage from passengers' baggage at Heathrow Airport is a matter for the airlines and the Metropolitan Police. The need for additional measures must be judged against the fact that over the last four years there has been a substantial decline in the number of thefts reported at the airport while the number of arrests over the same period has shown a significant increase.
§ Lord BRAYEMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Could not a few very top men from the CID be posted to Heathrow in order to prevent this continuous pilferage of baggage which goes on? It goes on the whole time, and it must have a very bad effect on foreigners arriving in this country, especially on those arriving for the first time, to find that their luggage has been stolen or pilfered.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I can only emphasise what I said in my original Answer, that the number of thefts at Heathrow has shown a substantial decline in recent years. I shall quote some figures to support that. In 1976 the total number of confirmed thefts was 726; in 1979 it had dropped to 202. In the same period the number of arrests rose from 14 to 57, and the number of passengers from 23.7 million to 28.4 million.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that 647 whatever he may say, and whatever the figures that he has given may seem to prove, this question of thefts and pilferage has got Heathrow a very bad reputation worldwide? Is it correct that the loaders at Heathrow have been pressing for the introduction of the banding of luggage? Does the noble Lord recall that some two years ago the banding machines, which tie straps round luggage at check-in desks, were installed for security flights, such as El-Al, the Belfast shuttle and Concorde, and that these were most successful? Finally, as I gather that both the British Airports Authority and the police are in favour of the introduction of such machines, can the Minister look at the matter again?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the banding of luggage is certainly one of the matters that has been considered. Indeed, as the noble Baroness has said, it has been adopted for certain flights which are regarded as being particularly sensitive. But the cost of doing that for all the flights has proved to be prohibitive.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, I am sorry to come back on that—at least, I do not know that I am sorry—but I should like to ask another question arising from it. Is the Minister aware that, as I gather, the commercial management of British Airways do not deny the use of this system because of the question of cost—which would seem to be contrary to what the Minister has just said—but because they feel that it would take up additional time at the check-in desks? As it is a matter for individual, airlines, will the Minister, the Department of Trade or the Civil Aviation Authority ask British Airways whether they would give it a trial on one or two other flights?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I shall certainly ask British Airways to look at this matter again with regard to the wider range of flights that the noble Baroness suggests, but I cannot hold out much hope that the earlier difficulties will be overcome.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, if the cost is too much, could the noble Lord tell us how much it costs per case and what percentage it is of an actual flight ticket?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, not without notice. But I recall that many noble Lords, including in particular the noble Baroness, were pressing hard for us to keep the fares as low as possible.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, although Heathrow may have a bad reputation for this in some quarters, there are many other airports in the world that have a far worse reputation than Heathrow?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. In point of fact the percentage of baggage broken into or pilfered is about the same at most of the major international airports of the world.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, could not the banding of luggage be made available voluntarily to passengers at their request?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, that might pose certain difficulties, but I shall draw what the noble Lord has said to the attention of British Airways.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, does my noble friend recall that a few years ago there was a strike by the unions when extra measures of security were imposed to prevent or discourage pilfering? From the figures he has given it suggests that the unions are now co-operating in trying to tighten up on security. Is this so? If not, could my noble friend tell us what progress has been made in that direction?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, perhaps I can simply refer to a case which attracted some notoriety recently when the judge in question said that honest loaders at Heathrow stood out like sore thumbs. We think that the learned judge was misinformed on that point, and I think the figures I have produced support that assertion. I would say that the incidence of dishonest loaders is no greater than the incidence of dishonest passengers.