HL Deb 21 April 1980 vol 408 cc525-7

2.40 p.m.

Baroness DAVID

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government, in view of the proposals to close Stafford House in Sussex, Battle of Britain House of Ruislip and Brant Broughton in Lincolnshire, what proposals they have to maintain the valuable national resource represented by short-term colleges.

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Baroness Young)

My Lords, although these short-term residential colleges may draw on an area wider than that of the local education authority which supports them, their maintenance as an educational resource is essentially a matter for local authorities to determine.

Baroness DAVID

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, I should like to ask whether it is true that since I tabled this Question with those three colleges named, Wreahead in North Yorkshire and Woodlands Park administered by Haringey are also to close and Pyke House, Battle in East Sussex, Urchfont Manor in Wiltshire, Burton Manor in Cheshire, and Wansfell Hall in Essex are also threatened with closure? Would the Minister not agree that these colleges really are a national asset, as they draw on very much wider areas than their own local authority? Surely it would be wise for the Government to step in during this difficult period to try to keep them going, so that the asset is still there when times get better?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, on the specific points raised by the noble Baroness, the premises of Wreahead College near Scarborough, which is administered by the North Yorkshire authority, are to be sold, although the local education authority also own Grantley Hall Adult College. Also, Woodlands Park, Cobham in Surrey, administered by Haringey, is to be closed. On the second point, with regard to DES support, the DES does in fact grant-aid five long-term adult residential colleges which fulfil a national need and the courses carried out there are not similar to those of the short-term residential colleges. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has agreed in principle to resume grant to a further long-term college from autumn 1980, but we could not undertake to do more than that at this juncture.

Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGER

My Lords, does the Minister's reply mean that such institutions as Hillcroft College or Fircroft, not to mention Ruskin College, are safe from closure? Is there any real distinction between colleges, as my noble friend has suggested, which are under local authority control and those which are national institutions, in that they all draw in a very wide population and they all produce people who have missed out on earlier opportunities for education and who afterwards give extremely valuable service to the community?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, so far as the five colleges are concerned, three of which the noble Baroness referred to, which are long-term residential colleges, it is the Government's policy to continue to grant-aid these on a deficiency basis and at the moment the cost is £824,000 per year. As I indicated, we are adding a further college to these. There is a difference between these colleges and the others, about 40, short-term residential colleges, in that the long-term college courses last a year, sometimes two years, whereas in talking about the short-term colleges we are normally talking about a weekend course.

Lord ELWYN-JONES

My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness, is Coleg Harlech safe?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords. I find it very difficult to believe it is not.

Baroness DAVID

My Lords, is the Minister aware that in the short-term colleges the courses are at least a month in some cases? Would she agree that there is an obligation under Section 41 of the 1944 Act, where it says it shall be the duty to provide leisure-time occupation in such organised cultural training and recreative activities as are suited to their requirements, for any persons over compulsory school age who are able and to profit by the facilities provided for that purpose"? Would the noble Baroness not agree that these short-term colleges are particularly suitable for that? The Russell Report in 1973 said that there were not nearly enough of them.

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I recognise the importance of the short-term colleges. What I hope will happen is that local authorities in looking at the provision will seek to rationalise the provision in their areas. It is, of course, still open to the colleges to increase their fees; it is a question of cost in many cases. There are institutions, private institutions, which run courses fully costed, which do manage to pay. So one needs to look at the financing of these colleges.

Baroness WOOTTON

My Lords, do not the short-term colleges running weekend courses sometimes use their premises for evening classes as well? So they do not stand idle all the week.

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I have not the particular details of every college, but I imagine this could well be the case. It must be remembered that on the figures we have for last year the average fee charged for the average adult education class was 30p. It will of course be increased this year. But it has to be compared with the price of a pint of beer at 45p or a packet of cigarettes at 70p. Adults taking these classes have to decide where their priorities lie.