HL Deb 17 April 1980 vol 408 cc407-9

3.15 p.m.

The Earl of KIMBERLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

.To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that there have been 14 inconclusive Answers to Questions on the Licensing Compensation Fund in the last five years and when they hope to be able to give a positive Answer on this subject.

Lord SANDYS

My Lords, I am aware that the noble Earl and other noble Lords have asked a number of Questions on this matter, including four since the present Administration took Office. As my noble friend Lord Belstead said in reply to a Question by the noble Lord, Lord Janner, on 31st March, good progress is being made in reaching decisions on how the Licensing Compensation Fund might be wound up and the proceeds disposed of.

The Earl of KIMBERLEY

My Lords, while I thank my noble friend for that Answer, may I ask whether he can say if talks are still proceeding with the brewers society? If that is so, when they cease will there perhaps be talks at ministerial level? Can he further say whether any money has been paid out of the Compensation Fund in the last year or two years?

Lord SANDYS

My Lords, yes; the discussions have been proceeding very well and there are good prospects of arriving at a scheme for winding up the fund which will be acceptable to the National Council on Alcoholism, of which the noble Earl is the vice-president, as well as to the drink industry. Secondly, in regard to the question of the use of the fund, for the year to the 31st December 1978 I can give the following figures: Derbyshire used it to the extent of £277; the West Midlands to the extent of £88,000; West Yorkshire to the extent of £18,500, making a total of £106,777.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the Government are aware that there is an increasing problem of alcoholism in the country at present and that a good deal of remedial work is being done by a number of outstanding voluntary organisations in the field of treatment? As it is expected that a substantial sum of money will be put aside for both research and treatment, are the Government also aware that it is urgent that this fund should be wound up so that money may be released on a generous scale to help both projects?

Lord SANDYS

My Lords, the Government are indeed aware of all the matters raised by the noble Lord, and as the noble Lord himself replied to a Question on this subject on 20th July, 1978, I can confirm that all that he said at that time is shared by this Government.

Lord JANNER

My Lords, after his reply to the noble Earl and myself, may I ask the noble Lord whether he does not think that after 30 years somewhere something is remiss when this matter has not been dealt with? When he says that it will be dealt with soon, what does he mean by "soon"? Is it not essential that something should be done with only a very little delay? Why have not any Government at all—because I am not talking entirely against the present Government—taken notice of what the licensing people themselves want done with moneys which they have produced?

Lord SANDYS

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Janner, agrees that this is an entirely non-political matter over a very long period. It is perfectly true that the licensing justices have a responsibility in this regard, and of course there are 58 committees which handle it, which adds to the complexity of the problem. I do not think I need add anything further to what I have already said.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is not a fact that I answered more than once on this particular matter, and does that not indicate that really the time has come when a final decision should be made?

Lord SANDYS

My Lords, if I may refer to what I said initially, very good progress is being made and the matter is at present under ministerial level consultation.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, would it not be possible for some distribution to be made to various deserving causes before this fund is actually wound up?

Lord SANDYS

My Lords, I regret that it would be impossible to do that because the whole matter requires primary legislation.