HL Deb 02 April 1980 vol 407 cc1341-5

2.48 p.m.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a Statement before the next summit conference on British relations with the EEC and the prospect of settlement of differences.

The SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (Lord Carrington)

My Lords, the Government remain determined to secure an equitable settlement of the budget problem. We shall treat other problems, such as the Common Agricultural Policy and Common Fishery Policy and sheepmeat, on their merits, and work for parallel progress.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, is the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary aware that I take note of his cautious and somewhat diplomatic reply but, on the whole, find it unsatisfactory? Is the noble Lord aware that the differences are not diminishing, particularly with the French, but accelerating? Is he aware that the Minister for Agriculture, Mr. Walker, who has just returned from the Continent, found himself profoundly dissatisfied at what had occurred? Is the noble Lord also aware that some French farmers had the impudence to stage a demonstration outside the House of Commons? What is likely to happen if we retaliate by sending a deputation to demonstrate outside the Chambre des Deputés in Paris? Is he aware that it is likely that at the summit conference the Prime Minister will fail to attain her primary objective in relation to our contribution to the EEC? In those circumstances, is it not desirable that, before the summit conference, and for the satisfaction of those millions of people who voted to enter the EEC and expected a settlement long before now, the Government should make a Statement?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, I confess to being rather surprised that the noble Lord should want to welcome an incautious and undiplomatic reply to this Question. What he says I do not agree with; I do not think the differences are worse than they were. I believe that over the last few months there has been a realisation by our partners in the Community that this country faces a real problem. It was certainly not so in July last year at Strasbourg. I think that from the time of Strasbourg, followed by Dublin, until now there has been a change of attitude on the part of our partners. We still have a long way to go, but I am quite convinced that if we all try in a spirit of friendship we can get a satisfactory solution.

Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLS

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, whatever merit there may be in eventually having a Community-based settlement for shecpmcat, energy and fish, the contribution should be dealt with quite separately because that is something that will have to go on for years? The possibility of these two problems being merged might help a temporary settlement, but it would be much better for the contribution to be put on a proper and permanent basis.

Lord CARRINGTON

As I said in my original Answer, my Lords, we shall treat these matters on their merits.

Lord WIGG

My Lords, although there are many, of whom I am one, who thought our entry into the Common Market would be disastrous because conditions would arise which we could not fulfil, may I ask the Foreign Secretary to bear in mind and persuade the Prime Minister that the one thing that must not happen is that this country should welsh on its obligations? Is he aware that it is of paramount importance that this country's word should be respected throughout the world? So, however objectionable and rough the going may become, whatever we have entered into, that we pay, at twenty shillings in the pound.

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, all these matters are considerations which the Government are taking into account.

Lord BLYTON

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that we who opposed our entry into the Common Market prognosticated the terrible price we should have to pay as a result of entry'? We all now know that it was a catastrophe when the referendum took place after we had been taken into the Market. Mrs. Thatcher need not think she will get anything. In the face of the terrible opposition we are receiving from the French, and our getting kicked all over the place, does the Foreign Secretary not think that we should now have a referendum to see whether people believe we should stay in the Common Market?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, I think it is a great mistake to assume that this is an Anglo-French dispute. It is not; this is a matter which all the Members of the Community have to solve between them, and we must see that it is solved.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask the Foreign Secretary a simple question? He says that each of these matters must be judged on its merits. Would he honestly say—and I expect an honest answer from him—that the attitude of the French at the present time, and for some time past, is based on the merits of the case, or on prejudice of some kind?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, as is usually the case in these matters, in different places these issues are seen from a different standpoint, and I have no doubt that the French are just as sincere in their attitude as we are in ours.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, is it not obvious that the Government should not make a statement before, but after, the coming meeting of the European Council?

Lord CARRINGTON

I thought I had made a kind of statement, my Lords.

Lord GORE-BOOTH

My Lords, may I, before asking my question, suggest that there is an unhappy atmosphere between the French and ourselves, however serious it may be, standing in the way of negotiations? Has the noble Lord thought in terms of doing the kind of operation which ultimately led in 1906 to an entente with the French? Might not something on that rather dramatic scale at least do something to improve the atmosphere, if it did not achieve concrete results very quickly?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, nobody would be happier than I should to see that our relations with all the Members of the Community are good. I believe that once we can get this issue out of the way there is no reason whatever why our relations with all our partners should not I be excellent.

Lord WIGG

My Lords, will the Foreign Secretary bear in mind that in 1906 there was a Foreign Office fiddle which ultimately destroyed the British Army and destroyed this country's standing in the world; that we went into France in 1914 with six divisions on the French left, which was military nonsense; and that the ultimate result was that from being in a position of paramount power, we ended up what we are today?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, perhaps one of the advantages at the moment is that the European Community excludes the subject of defence.