HL Deb 31 October 1979 vol 402 cc371-3

2.44 p.m.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they propose to take in regard to the army tanks which were ordered by the Shah of Iran.

The MINISTER of STATE, MINISTRY of DEFENCE (Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal)

My Lords, the Iranian order involved the supply of over 1,200 Shir tanks. When the Iranians repudiated their contract with us in February of this year it was necessary for us to bring the contracts with the Royal Ordnance Factory, Leeds, and its subcontractors to an end. ROF, Leeds, were then left with a small number of partly completed tanks and materials for others, which together amounted to nothing like the full order, which would have taken several years to complete. Various options are being considered for the disposal of these tanks, including the possibility of finding other customers.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask whether he does not think it essential for our Army to have the necessary equipment to carry out their full training and duties, and would it not be possible to have some of these tanks allocated to them?

Lord STRATHCONA and MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Vickers, is quite right. The implications of the repudiation of the Iranian contract upon the British Army are being studied, and certainly one option includes the possible purchase of additional tanks to strengthen our existing armoured capability in the light of the growing threat from the Warsaw Pact.

Earl FORTESCUE

My Lords, if in the event the British Army does get some of these tanks, can my noble friend give an assurance that it will not delay the introduction of the successor to the Chieftain?

Lord STRATHCONA and MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, that is an extremely relevant question. This is one of the most important considerations. The British Army is extremely anxious that the introduction of what is known as MBT.80 should not be delayed, should it be decided to take some of these other tanks into service.

Lord WIGG

My Lords, will the noble Lord be good enough to say whether the whole concept of armoured fighting vehicles is being studied in relation to the development of Copperhead and, if so, what steps the Government are taking about it?

Lord STRATHCONA and MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, is the noble Lord suggesting that the day of the tank is over—because if he is, that is not the current perception, as far as I am aware, certainly of the British Army, or indeed almost any other army.

Lord WIGG

My Lords, I neither said it nor suggested it, but I read the American Secretary of State's Defence Statement every year and the Americans are obviously spending a considerable amount of money on the development of Copperhead, which, I hope the Minister is aware, is a laser guided weapon. If it is developed and is successful the whole concept of armoured fighting vehicles will have to be examined. I am not saying what should be done. All I want to know is whether, quite apart from spending money on a defence programme which I regard as useless, some regard is being taken of technical developments in other countries.

Lord STRATHCONA and MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, the noble Lord is inviting me to indulge in a philosophical discussion about the whole nature of tank warfare in the future, which goes a little wider than the Question. What I am saying to him is that, although anti-tank weapons are increasing in their lethality, so is the defensive capability of tanks increasing; and the current thinking is that you still need tanks, and will need tanks right up to the turn of the century.