HL Deb 23 October 1979 vol 402 cc8-11

2.54 p.m.

Lord BOYD-CARPENTER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they were consulted in advance by the British Airports Authority as to that authority's intention to give an undertaking to the West Sussex County Council not to build the second runway at Gatwick for 40 years and whether they regard themselves as bound by this undertaking.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the present Government were not consulted about the agreement and are not parties to it. Not being parties to the agreement, the Government cannot be bound by it. The Government will reach their view on this and other matters concerning expansion of London's airports when they receive shortly the reports of the Advisory Committee on Airports Policy and the Study Group on South-East Airports.

Lord BOYD-CARPENTER

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that wholly satisfactory reply. may I ask him to confirm what I think is his implication—namely, that if, either as a result of the current review of the London airports or for other reasons at any time during the subsequent 40 years, while the Government will no doubt be in office, they will regard themselves as wholly free to direct the British Airports Authority to construct a second runway if in the judgment of the Government it is required?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am in some difficulty in replying to that supplementary, because of the quasi-judicial functions of my right honourable friends the Secretaries of State for the Environment and for Trade in relation to the forthcoming inquiry into a second terminal at Gatwick. I think it would be inappropriate for me at this stage to express a view such as that for which the noble Lord asks.

Lord BOYD-CARPENTER

My noble friend, I think, misunderstood my Question. I did not ask him to confirm what the Government would do; I asked him to confirm that the Government could, if they so wished, give such a direction.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I do not think I can go further than my original Answer, and perhaps I might quote just one sentence from it: Not being parties to the agreement, the Government cannot be bound by it".

Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY

My Lords, could the Minister see that publicity is given to that welcome reply? Is he aware that the opinion of people who are interested in these matters is that really it has been no use pursuing the question of the second runway, because the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, has tried on many occasions and we have always been met with the fact that the British Airports Authority would not con-done it? May I ask him, finally, whether he would not agree that it is probably even more important to have a second runway at Gatwick than to have a second terminal?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the Government have not yet reached their conclusion in this matter. As I said in my original Answer, we are awaiting the reports of the Advisory Committee on Airports Policy and of the Study Group on South-East Airports. Until those reports are received we have an open mind on these matters, and certainly we have reached no conclusion as to whether or not there should be a second runway at Gatwick. When our predecessors were in office they announced in the 1978 White Paper that they saw, if my memory serves me aright, "no future" in the proposal for a second runway at Gatwick. We reserved our position on that White Paper when we were in Opposition, and are not yet in a position to announce our conclusions.

Lord HARVEY of PRESTBURY

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the cargo village at Gatwick was built on land that might have been available for the second runway? Is he aware that, even if the Airports Authority and others concerned were to agree that a second runway was necessary, it probably could not be built?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am aware that the cargo village recently constructed at Gatwick is along the line of one of the possible sites for a second runway.

Lord MURRAY of GRAVESEND

My Lords, is the noble Lord not aware of the fact that obviously the building of runways at airports is a very explosive matter for a lot of people living in the area? Will the Minister make sure that the West Sussex County Council and the British Airports Authority are informed that the Government are not bound by their decision?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am in fact certain that the British Airports Authority and the West Sussex County Council are well aware of the thoughts contained in my Answer today.

The Earl of ONSLOW

My Lords, is the noble Lord not aware that large numbers, if not the majority, of people both in Sussex and in Surrey, where I live, would be wholly opposed to the building of a second runway at Gatwick airport, especially after this pledge by the county council concerned that a second runway would not be built? Is the noble Lord aware that local feeling runs very, very high indeed?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the position is not entirely one for the local authority. There are other people concerned, including the Government and the British Airports Authority.

Lord HAWKE

My Lords, may I confirm what my noble friend Lord Onslow has said—

Several Noble Lords: No! Question!

Lord HAWKE

My Lords, is the Minister aware that his answer will be received with the greatest regret by all the inhabitants of West Sussex? Does this mean that any bargain done with the aid of a Government agency can be repudiated by the central Government if they wish to do so?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the final conclusion in this matter must rest with the Government and we have not yet made our decision.