§ 3.14 p.m.
§ Lord LUCAS of CHILWORTHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking, or propose to take, in order to recover overdue and unpaid vehicle excise duty.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, in 1978 the Department of Transport followed up about 300,000 cases of unlicensed use of vehicles either by offering mitigated penalties or by prosecution through the courts. The problem of evasion of vehicle excise duty is one of the major factors being considered in the Government's review of the duty.
§ Lord LUCAS of CHILWORTHMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for his Answer. Is he able to confirm that some £60 million are lost by evasion, and is it not a fact that this would represent about 7 per cent. of the existing licence fee of £50? If so, would it not be more reasonable to put an end to the evasion before other means of collecting this tax are considered?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, if the figure of 7 to 9 per cent., which was given in the study undertaken by the previous Government, is correct—it may well be, but I should not like to guarantee that—the amount involved would be somewhere between £50 million and £60 million. I am in the tricky position of being at the Dispatch Box, awaiting the review of my right honourable friend which will be available very shortly, and I cannot anticipate what he is going 282 to say. So I must in this matter beg the indulgence of noble Lords on all sides of the House.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, the previous Government, and indeed successive Governments, have had on their plate for a number of years this problem of the number of people who do not licence their vehicles, and who therefore penalise all other people who are trying to obey the law. The previous Administration were considering the abolition of VED, and perhaps an increase in petrol charges, in order that everyone would at least pay his share towards the roads. Can the noble Lord confirm that this is one of the points that his right honourable friend is still considering and, if so, can he say when that report is likely to be available?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, this is much the same as I was saying to my right honourable friend. The noble Baroness will have heard that this is something which her right honourable friend was considering. It has been considered very seriously by my right honourable friend, and our review will be taking account of all these factors.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, will my noble friend consider giving instructions to local authorities that they should encourage wardens to note when cars have not been licensed? It is a task which they could undertake quite easily and simply in the course of their normal duties, and rather more productively in many instances. Instead of collecting £6, they would collect at least the £50 fee which was being evaded. This would be productive, without giving extra duties to the police who are already overloaded.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I think I am right in saying that 90 per cent. of the reports of excise evasion which come into the Department are made by police and wardens. I cannot at this moment break down those figures for my noble friend. In respect of those figures mitigated penalties are offered, which avoids going to the courts. It may interest noble Lords to know that magistrates are able to impose a fine of up to five times the amount of the licence evaded, apart from payment of the licence fee which is to be collected. So the fine which can be imposed is not inconsiderable.
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many of us will be glad to hear that a Government Statement on this matter is likely before long? Can he give us an indication of whether or not we are to get this Statement before the Christmas Recess because, as my noble friend Lady Stedman pointed out, this matter has been before two Governments over the last year and a half? Is he also aware that the answers which he gave this afternoon indicated the large-scale evasion of this duty which is at the moment taking place? Is he further aware of the total amount of unnecessary work which is imposed upon the already overburdened magistrates' courts as a result of trying to enforce this duty, when it would be far more sensible to transfer this to the petrol tax?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Harris, knows about these matters only too well. This is partly a Home Office matter and, obviously, the Department of Transport cannot deal with the way in which the police are ordered to do things. On his first question, about whether the Statement will be made before Christmas, I am not empowered to say so but I should be very surprised if it were not. I think that I can give confidence to the noble Lord in that way.
§ Lord DERWENTMy Lords, is it not already part of the duty of wardens to put a ticket on a car which is not licensed? Wherever a car may be standing it is improperly parked, because it is not licensed, and I think that they already do it.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONYes, my Lords. That is indeed the case and fines are usually imposed. But the Department of Transport at Swansea is limited in manpower, and is therefore limited in the number of prosecutions that it is able to process.