HL Deb 15 November 1979 vol 402 cc1386-8

3.22 p.m.

Baroness DUDLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to amend the employment protection legislation so as to give small business more flexibility in employing staff.

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EMPLOYMENT (The Earl of Gowrie)

My Lords, the Government are currently engaged in consultation on their proposals to amend the employment protection legislation, some of which have been framed with the specific purpose of giving small businesses more flexibility in employing staff. Copies of the working paper for consultation, published on 25th September, have been deposited in the Library.

Baroness DUDLEY

My Lords, is it true to say that if every small business employed one extra person it would cut unemployment by half?

The Earl of GOWRIE

My Lords, without wishing to initiate further statistical surveys, I understand that is roughly the position.

Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY

My Lords, while welcoming the Minister's reply, may I ask whether he will be able to help to make the situation easier for invalids and older people who have to do shopping but can now no longer shop in the villages because the shops are closed? We used to have seven shops; we now have one. This is closely tied in with the transport problem. Will the noble Earl please give his mind to some flexibility both to help the individual shopkeeper and also as regards transport to other, nearer shopping centres?

The Earl of GOWRIE

My Lords, I altogether agree with my noble friend that the proliferation of small businesses is useful not only in employment terms but also as regards services to the public, particularly in rural areas.

Lord SPENS

My Lords, is the Minister aware that at the moment we suffer from two employment protection Acts: that of 1975 and the consolidation Act of 1978, which did not appear to consolidate very much? Does the Minister not agree that it would be far better if a further consolidation Act were introduced, which was very much slimmer than either of the two present Acts, which would be of very great advantage to small businesses?

The Earl of GOWRIE

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware, of course, that the Government are fully committed to the concept of employment protection. It was, after all, a Conservative Government which first brought into law the concepts of, for instance, remedies for unfair dismissal. But I agree that things very rapidly got out of hand, and that is why we are seeking to amend the legislation.

Lord WIGG

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that, despite his lip-service to the furtherance of small businesses, in view of the Government's fiscal policies there will be very few small businesses left in the very near future?

The Earl of GOWRIE

My Lords, the noble Lord is perfectly right in saying that inflation falls harder on the smaller rather than on the larger business.

Lord WIGG

My Lords, in that case, of course, the noble Earl is agreeing with what I say, because the present Government are pushing inflation well above the 20 per cent. mark, and——

Several noble Lords: Speech!

Lord WIGG

——it may well go even higher.