§ Baroness HORNSBY-SMITHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to prevent foreign trawlers fishing within United Kingdom fishing limits in the English Channel and by using smaller mesh nets ignoring United Kingdom regulations essential for the conservation of our fishing stocks.
The MINISTER of STATE, MINISTRY of AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES and FOOD (Earl Ferrers)My Lords, all waters, including the English Channel, lying within British fishery limits are regularly patrolled by our fishery protection fleet in order to ensure that all fishing vessels comply with United Kingdom laws on mesh sizes and related fishery conservation measures.
§ Baroness HORNSBY-SMITHMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that reply. But is he satisfied, particularly in relation to the West Country ports, that the fishing patrol vessels are adequate in numbers and speed to cope with the poaching that has been occurring in the last few weeks? Secondly, in view of the speed with which this country implemented the recommendations regarding the mesh measurements of nets—rightly, I believe, in view of the need to conserve fishing stocks—will Her Majesty's Government press for similar action by other maritime powers, in order to conserve fishing stocks, and to give our fishermen a fair deal and prevent the poaching of immature fishing stocks?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, the answer to my noble friend's first question is that we are satisfied that the number of vessels and the capability of the vessels is adequate for the task. With regard to the second part of her question, we are, of course, actively pursuing a common fishing policy within the EEC. We are anxious that this should be concluded as quickly as possible. We have taken action on conservation ourselves because we feel this to be very important; otherwise there will be no fish to fish.
§ Lord BOOTHBYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether Her Majesty's Government are satisfied that the Navy has enough ships of the particular kind required to ensure the effective protection of our inshore fishing industry?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, we are satisfied that there are adequate vessels. The noble Lord, Lord Boothby, might like to know that there are five Royal Navy Island Class vessels and three vessels operated by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland which are deployed on fishery protection duties in offshore waters. They are supported by RAF Nimrod aircraft, which fly about 180 hours a month on surveillance duties, and eight to 10 Royal Navy Ton Class vessels. A further three vessels operated by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland are deployed in coastal waters.
§ Lord BOOTHBYMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that satisfactory answer.
§ Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLSMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that, on matters such as this, it is vital that we remain firmly within the law? Is he aware that in terms of our relationship with our partners in Europe we may be passing through a critical stage? Some of them are wanting to ignore the rule of law in certain matters, which could well bring about a breakdown in that very essential partnership. Would he agree that we must give a lead by seeing to it when a law or a regulation is in existence it is adhered to, and if we are disquieted about anything we get our remedies through the courts and do not take unilateral action which undermines the very rule of law itself?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, I think there is nothing which my noble friend has asked 597 me in that question with which I would disagree. We are concerned to see that any action we take is within the law. We have taken certain action with regard to fishery conservation which we believe to be within the law, although there are others who have taken the case to the European Court.
§ The Earl of KIMBERLEYMy Lords, can my noble friend say what is the Government's policy towards the Russian factory ships which are at present sitting in Falmouth harbour, thereby doing the local fishermen, the number of whose boats has been reduced from approximately 100 to 30, out of their livelihood?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, it is our duty to police and patrol the waters which are under our jurisdiction. If my noble friend has any particular point that he would wish me to look at I would be quite willing to do so, if he would be kind enough to let me know the details.
§ Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARDMy Lords, would not my noble friend agree that it is very difficult for the crew of a Nimrod aircraft to decide if a boat is using an illegal mesh? Therefore, would it not be wise to have helicopters carrying rubber dinghies with outboard engines which could be launched into the sea in order to inspect the nets?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, that is an ingenious suggestion. I am aware that it would be very difficult for any pilot to check the size of a 70 millimetre net from a fair height at a fair speed. That is, of course, why we have ships. It is up to the ships to board the vessels when there is any matter for concern. As regards helicopters, I think the initial reply to that suggestion is bound to be that this would be a matter of very considerable expense.