HL Deb 23 May 1979 vol 400 cc435-9

2.44 p.m.

Lord TORPHICHEN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether any review of the Post Office telecommunications monopoly has taken place since the publication of the Carter Report in July 1977, and whether they plan to implement the recommendation in paragraph 63 of that report to relax the monopoly.

The MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT of INDUSTRY (Viscount Trenchard)

My Lords, as my right honourable friend has said in another place, the Government are studying the scope for increasing competition in some areas now served by monopoly nationalised industries. This includes the Post Office telecommunications monopoly and the matters contained in the Carter Report.

Lord TORPHICHEN

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Can he by any chance give the House some indication of when?

Viscount TRENCHARD

My Lords, I do not think I can at this stage, except to say that we regard some of the matters in the Carter Report as having been outstanding for a long while. We are aware of the need, both for morale and for other reasons, to clarify the atmosphere on these matters.

Lord PLANT

My Lords, may I ask the Minister to indicate that he is aware of the declared point of view of the workers in the telecommunications industry and the Post Office? Will he bear in mind the very urgent necessity to take their views into account and have consultations?

Viscount TRENCHARD

Quite certainly, my Lords: consultations with all concerned, including those who work in the Post Office, will be carried out.

Baroness GAITSKELL

My Lords, is it not true to say that the Government have always been jealous of the nationalised industries from the very start, when they were introduced?

Viscount TRENCHARD

I do not think jealousy will enter into the question, my Lords. We are looking only for efficiency, and the consideration of a degree of competition and choice has been recommended. We are looking at whether it can be done with the greatest efficiency.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend to assure the House that private interests and partial affections will not be allowed to obstruct the will of Parliament?

Viscount TRENCHARD

I can give that assurance, my Lords.

Lord WALLACE of COSLANY

My Lords, may I congratulate the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box and sympathise with him in the problem of mastering briefs? Is he aware that the Post Office telecommunications system is one of the finest in the world as regards research and development and that it would be a most retrograde step partially to sell off this very prosperous organisation and leave the not so remunerative parts to the postal services to stand at a loss with public expense involved and possibly higher charges? It would be a damnable result for our British telecommunications system—

Several noble Lords: Question!

Lord WALLACE of COSLANY

— to be completely castrated, which is the policy of the Tory Party.

Viscount TRENCHARD

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his sympathy as I stand here for the first time; after that, his sympathy seemed to disappear a little. As I understand it, and the noble Lord is probably a greater expert than I, we have very great technical achievements in this area and a telecommunications industry that can make a contribution. We are well aware of the dangers of taking parts away and leaving a part which is very difficult to run, and I assure him that our object is efficiency and that therefore that point will be taken into account, but we believe, as the Carter Report itself has indicated, that a little competition may be able to be introduced.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, would it not be advisable, if there were any question of transferring from the Post Office an asset which pays and makes a profit, to consider too the transfer of liabilities which also exist?

Viscount TRENCHARD

My Lords, I did not expect such formidable opposition on the first day from the Father of the House, if I may say so, and I do not think I can add to my Answer, except to say that we will look at all parts of the Post Office and the telecommunications system—the difficult parts and the easy parts—and the recommendations will be designed to improve and will not be on any dogmatic basis, as I do not believe efficiency is compatible with dogma.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that not only a little measure of competition within the Post Office but also a greater measure of competition among those who seek contracts from the Post Office may be salutary? Is he aware that this involves very large expenditure annually, and does he agree that more competition from the suppliers would be wholly helpful to this public corporation?

Viscount TRENCHARD

Yes, my Lords.

Lord BLYTON

My Lords, does not the Minister agree that the asset stripping of the nation's industries is being done only to satisfy the speculators who contributed to the funds of the Tory Party?

Viscount TRENCHARD

My Lords, I do not consider that that point is within the realms of the matters we are thinking of. We are thinking of saving public expenditure and increasing efficiency by whatever means possible.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that the most recent reorganisations carried out by a Tory Government, involving the Health Service and local government, did not turn out as they anticipated?

Viscount TRENCHARD

My Lords, I shall bear that in mind, and I shall also hear in mind the state of industry, which I have now had a chance of looking at. Both need to be improved.

Lord TORPHICHEN

My Lords, may I return to my original Question and ask my noble friend whether he is aware that the so-called telephone interconnection industry is virtually denied to British firms by nature of the restrictions placed upon it by the British Post Office, and that a quite small liberalisation of this monopoly could possibly pay dividends both to Post Office workers, who would be given more work thereby, and to British firms who would be able to export the products relating to the telephone system?

Viscount TRENCHARD

My Lords, we shall bear in mind the points that the noble Lord has made.

Lord TAYLOR of BLACKBURN

My Lords, will the Minister give the same consideration as he is giving to the Carter Report to the Taylor Report on reorganisation of governors and managers of schools?

Viscount TRENCHARD

My Lords, I think that that is a separate Question which the noble Lord is fully entitled to table on another occasion.