CONSERVATION OF WILD CREATURES AND WILD PLANTS (AMENDMENT) BILL [H.L.] (Hansard, 22 March 1979)

§ Lord SKELMERSDALE
My Lords, I wish to ask the noble Baroness whether I am correct in assuming that the words, his action was necessary for the purpose of preventing are not printed in bold type because they in fact restore the original words and that there are no new words, which would be printed in bold type were they added to the Bill by the Keeling schedule.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
That is my understanding of the position, my Lords, and I hope that both the noble Lord and myself are right about this.

§ Lord SKELMERSDALE
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill do now pass. In doing so, as is customary in your Lordships' House, I should like to thank all the many people who have helped me with the Bill, both in the Chamber and outside. I have already referred to the noble Baroness and her most helpful officials, and I am very grateful to them. My noble friend Lord Mowbray and Stourton, on the Front Bench, has on this occasion been somewhat silent, but he has been of enormous help outside the Chamber, and I am most grateful to him. I am also extremely grateful to my noble friend Lord Craigton who has at times made useful comments, has been persuaded where persuasion was necessary, and, I should say in all fairness, equally has persuaded me where persuasion was necessary.

§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON
My Lords, I wish to thank the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, for his kind words about me, and to reiterate my gratitude to the noble Baroness the Minister, though I am becoming rather weary of directing all these praises to her; I feel that we are almost canonising her. As my noble Leader mentioned "the latter stages of a dying Government", I am not sure that in such circumstances we should canonise people, though perhaps it is the appropriate time. I also wish to congratulate my noble friend upon inheriting the mantle of our late departed friend Lord Cranbrook and upon doing that so well.
While on my feet I also wish to ask the recently canonised noble Baroness to confirm what she told me outside the Chamber: namely, that certain bodies in this country, because the Bill is so technical, are worried that it might not be enforced. Therefore, it has been suggested that various other measures should be written into the Bill to give powers of enforcement and prosecution to certain people 1287 or bodies. The noble Baroness has satisfied me on this point, and I now invite her to do so publicly to the House and to say that there are already sufficient powers for the public to take an interest in the Bill. Unless the public take an interest in these matters, no laws relating to them will be enforceable. It is no good speaking only of police or wardens, and I should like confirmation regarding the public's entitlement. With those words I again thank the noble Baroness and my noble friend.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, in taking the noble Lord's last point first, I can certainly confirm that there are adequate powers to do all that we want to do in terms of policing the Bill (when it becomes an Act) and all the other Acts concerned with conservation and wild creatures. We see no problems arising in that regard. In this country we are lucky in that we have so great a number of voluntary organisations which are not only extremely enthusiastic but also extremely knowledgeable and are willing to give their services in helping to police these matters. There is certainly no lack of powers with which to carry out the duties and the responsibilities which we have imposed upon people through the Bill.
I also wish to thank both noble Lords for their comments, which apply not so much to me but to my officials for the help that they have provided. I am sure that the officials found the task as daunting as did the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, when we started virtually at square one and worked right through the matter again. I hope that the Government will remain in office long enough for the Bill to have a fair wind in the other place, so that the noble Lord does not face the prospect of having to go through the whole procedure again in another Parliament.