§ Lord HATCH of LUSBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to maintain the rising allocations made by the Labour Government in overseas aid.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the level of overseas aid for future years will be decided by Ministers in the course of their normal review of public expenditure for 1980–81 and beyond. This review will be undertaken against the back-ground of the overriding need to reduce the excessive level of public expenditure. We cannot yet say anything about the effect of this review on any particular programme.
§ Lord HATCH of LUSBYMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask him whether he will tell us what reduction or maintenance of the level of Government expenditure in overseas aid has been made so far? Will he further accept three propositions? First, the present level of British overseas aid employs 40,000 to 50,000 people in this country; secondly, it is of the utmost importance that the developing peoples to whom that aid goes should be enabled to take our exports; thirdly, if we are going to maintain our essential imports of minerals and other materials, it is equally important that those people should be enabled to develop their standard of life.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the reduction in aid announced for this year 1322 is in the order of £50 million. The noble Lord has drawn attention to the advantages of giving aid to developing countries; we do not deny any of those advantages—the difficulty is that we just do not have the money.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he can give an assurance that, in addition to paying due regard to his party's and his Government's social policy, which involves swingeing cuts in public expenditure, from which we understand overseas aid is not to be exempted, they will also have regard to their international commitment with other countries, to try to achieve the internationally accepted targets of expenditure on aid which the United Nations has approved?
§ Lord TREFGARNEYes, my Lords; we will, of course, have regard to our commitments to foreign countries and also to the targets set by the United Nations.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERMy Lords, can my noble friend at least give an assurance that no aid is now being given to Vietnam?
§ Lord TREFGARNENot without notice, my Lords.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, am I to understand that the scale of intended reduction in foreign aid by the United States of America exceeds greatly the figure which has just been stated as the intention of Her Majesty's Government?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I am afraid I cannot answer for the Government of the United States of America.
The Lord Bishop of ROCHESTERMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he can assure us that the comparatively small but quite significant development education fund will be maintained?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I am afraid that no field of overseas aid is exempt from the Government's present review.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, has the noble Lord been able to study the figures published this morning which 1323 show that the OECD countries last year increased their aid by 7 per cent., even though many had not reached the UN target? Would it not be regrettable if this country was the only one next year which reduced its aid?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, we are not reducing our aid next year. Despite the cut, there is a real and a relative increase.
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESMy Lords, can the Minister state on what countries the cuts will fall?
§ Lord TREFGARNENo, my Lords, we are reviewing our aid to all countries and I am afraid none of them is exempt from our considerations.
§ Lord HATCH of LUSBYMy Lords, may I bring the noble Lord back to my original Question? Is the cut in overseas aid not in itself a blow to British industry?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, many things may prove to be a blow to British industry, but the fact remains that we cannot give aid that we do not already have to give.