HL Deb 21 June 1979 vol 400 cc1123-7

3.59 p.m.

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, with the permission of the House, I shall now make a Statement similar to the one being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. The Statement is as follows:

"The Top Salaries Review Body, under the chairmanship of Lord Boyle, submitted to the Prime Minister on 11th June, its Twelfth Report, which deals with the pay of Members of Parliament, Ministers and office holders of the House of Lords, and with certain allowances. The Government are most grateful to Lord Boyle and his colleagues for their thorough review and clear recommendations. The report was published today and copies are available in the Printed Paper Office.

"The Review Body draws attention to the fact that the parliamentary salary has not been brought properly up to date for seven years. They recommend a revised figure of £12,000 with effect from the due date of 13th June 1979. They also recommend that the parliamentary salary of Ministers and other paid office holders who are Members of the House of Commons should be increased from their present level to £7,000. They make a series of detailed recommendations about the pay of Ministers and of office holders, of which the most significant are an increase in the pay of Cabinet Ministers from £14,300 to £25,000, and of Parliamentary Secretaries from £6,050 to £13,000, excluding in both cases the relevant part of their parliamentary salary. The other increases they propose are set out clearly in the report. These increases are large, although this is in part the result of action taken by previous Governments in holding back the recommended rates in earlier reviews.

"The Government accept the sums recommended. However, both sides of the House will recognise that it would be entirely wrong if we in Parliament were to treat ourselves on salaries more favourably than others. We have therefore decided to recommend to your Lordships that the full increases in salaries for Ministers and office holders should not be brought in immediately, but in three equal stages, the first in the present month, the second in June 1980 and the third in June 1981. "The Government also propose that the full recommended salary rates should be adopted for pension purposes from the appropriate date this summer. This too follows the treatment agreed for public service groups in recent settlements.

"The Review Body also recommend increases in the secretarial allowance for Members of Parliament from £4,200 to £4,600 as an interim measure, pending a final recommendation in the second part of their report, which is due shortly. They propose increases in the Peers' expenses allowance, together with certain changes in the definition of eligible expenditure, dividing the expenses into three categories instead of the two at present. They propose that Peers who have to stay in London overnight when they attend the House should be able to claim for expenses up to a maximum of £18.50. They also recommend that the present single category of day attendance allowance should consist of two categories. For day subsistence and incidental travel they propose a maximum allowance of £9, and for secretarial costs, postage and certain additional expenses a maximum of £8.50.

"The Government propose that these increases in allowances, including Peers' expenses allowances, should be introduced in full immediately. The Government have asked the Review Body to consider urgently the question of secretarial and other necessary expenses incurred by Ministers and office holders in the House of Lords in the course of their parliamentary duties.

"The Review Body considered how their recommended salaries could be kept up to date. Their view was that, for Members of Parliament and for Ministers alike, the proper course is regular independent review. They recognised, however, the practical advantage of finding a suitable way of keeping the salary of Members of Parliament up to date between reviews and described in detail the comparative advantages and disadvantages of some of the different forms of link which had been suggested to them. This is a difficult issue and there are arguments for and against a link of this kind. The Government prefer therefore to reserve judgment until they have had further opportunities to take account of the views of the House of Commons.

"The rates recommended by the Review Body for the Prime Minister and the Lord Chancellor are, as in the past, higher than those for other Cabinet Ministers. The Prime Minister is unable to be in the House of Commons today because she is attending the European Council in Strasbourg. She has authorised me to say that while she and the Lord Chancellor have agreed that the proposed rates are appropriate for their respective offices and should apply after the next election, they have decided not to accept any increase which would put their ministerial salary above the amount recommended for their Cabinet colleagues. Consequently, they will take no increase in ministerial salary until 1981. They have decided to take this course on the clear understanding that all other ministerial increases are accepted, subject only to staging.

"Your Lordships will have an opportunity to consider the Motions necessary to implement these matters so far as they affect this House."

4.5 p.m.

Lord PEART

My Lords, may I thank the noble Lord the Leader for his Statement repeating what has been said in another place. I am glad that our colleagues in another place are going to be helped. But I think it is not the time now to debate any of these issues because colleagues in the House should examine the Boyle Report, which is now available. I think it is absolutely right that Peers' expenses should be raised at this time, particularly those Peers who live out of London and have to stay overnight. I think the nation should understand that years ago the House functioned on a very part-time basis, but it is now increasingly a legislative Assembly. Indeed, now that more senior Ministers in the Government sit in this House, the accountability of Ministers means that the duties of Peers have become much heavier in the past few years. I am glad that action is taken on this. I am grateful for what the noble Lord has done and the way he has introduced this. I think that we must pay credit to the noble Lord, Lord Boyle, and his colleagues for their work. It is not long ago that I had the honour to lead an all-party delegation to the Boyle Committee and to discuss with them the problems which have now, I think, been settled. I thank the noble Lord sincerely for his Statement today.

Lord BYERS

My Lords, I should like to endorse everything the noble Lord, Lord Peart, has said in thanking the noble Lord for making this Statement. This is very much an all-party matter affecting Members in all quarters of the House. There is no doubt that an adjustment was long overdue in the rate of the allowances. On a matter of detail, may I ask the noble Lord how he interprets the phrase, "these increases in allowances … should be introduced in full immediately". For the sake of clarification, does that mean from today, or has the noble Lord some other date in mind?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, might I thank both the noble Lord, Lord Peart, and the noble Lord, Lord Byers, for what they have said, and also say thank you for the part played by noble Lords who, in the interests of the House as a whole, gave evidence, and the noble Baroness who gave a considerable amount of evidence, to the Boyle Committee. It was obviously effective evidence that was given, and it has evidently been taken into full and due account by Lord Boyle and his Committee.

I fully agree with the noble Lord, Lord Peart, when he says that the business of this House has increased considerably. Anyway, the expenses have also increased considerably. I do not think that he should go too far in saying that the fact that there are three Cabinet Ministers in this House makes all that difference, because there was a time when there was a Prime Minister in this House. As to the specific point made by the noble Lord, Lord Byers, I am afraid that the exact date has not been decided. All I can say as a guide is that the last time such a change was made it was done during the month of June, but I am afraid that I cannot give an exact date today.