HL Deb 24 July 1979 vol 401 cc1810-5

3.2 p.m.

Lord WHADDON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask the Leader of the House whether he will consider the establishment of suitable facilities for Lords and accredited Lobby correspondents to meet on an informal basis within the precincts of the House.

The LORD PRESIDENT of the COUNCIL (Lord Soames)

My Lords, this is a matter in the first place for the Administration Committee. The Committee last considered the provision of a bar for Peers and Lobby correspondents as recently as March last year. They concluded that it was not a practical proposition because of the lack of accommodation and the cost involved. The Committee suggested that journalists and Peers might be encouraged to use the Lords' Bar. Peers may, of course, invite journalists to the Guest Room as their guests.

Lord WHADDON

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer. Does he not agree that greater access for accredited correspondents, as of right instead of by invitation, would lead to greater understanding by the public of the issues debated in this House? Furthermore, would he not agree that the similar facilities available at the other end of the Palace of Westminster have been of great advantage there?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, as noble Lords know, there are difficulties about accommodation at this end of the corridor. It has been looked at over a long period of time. Would that matters were better! But they are not, and we have grave difficulties. I must say that my experience has been that, if journalists have wanted to seek out noble Lords, they have always managed to succeed in doing so. And, as I say, perhaps the Lords' Bar could be used rather more than it is.

Lord MURRAY of GRAVESEND

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that it would be helpful if he accepted my noble friend's suggestion, because we are going to undergo a number of U-turns within the next few months and it would be helpful if the Government could explain them to journalists?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, I do not think that the noble Lord need worry on that score. We shall find plenty of means of explaining our policies both to noble Lords and to journalists—for whom they will be so self-evidently right that they will fall on receptive ears.

Lord DRUMALBYN

My Lords, would my noble friend at least treat this as a priority? Would he at the very earliest opportunity take advantage of any accommodation becoming available? Is he aware that there are a large number of Members in this House who think that it would be a very desirable development to encourage journalists to visit this end of the Palace of Westminster rather more frequently than they do?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, undoubtedly, it would be nice if it were possible. This has been considered by the Administration Committee, and I have no doubt that, if the House so willed, they would be ready to consider the matter again. It is not for me to give obiter dicta on whether or not this is right. In principle, it would be nice; but we suffer from certain shortages of accommodation and that is a fact of life.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, would not my noble friend consider that, since the House of Lords now is much more active than it was 10, 15 or 20 years ago and has many more active Members now than before, whereas the House of Commons has remained static in that respect, there is a case for recovery from the House of Commons of such territory as the Pugin Room, which was ceded to them in a period of Lords' weakness and Commons' bombastry?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, it was a considerable time back when this was done. I think that the other place would have some difficulty in giving it up now.

Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGE

My Lords, does the noble Lord think that if some change of this kind could be made noble Lords here could have an entertainment allowance; for without that I do not think they would be able to entertain the Press very much?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, this would be possible; in fact, it is possible. If noble Lords wish to, I am sure that there will be the possibility of so doing.

Lord ROBBINS

My Lords, returning to the original Question, would the noble Lord not agree with the sentiment that I think has been expressed on both sides of this House: that this is a matter of extreme importance for the future of the House of Lords? Day after day, I sit here on the Cross-Benches hearing the most expert and illuminating speeches; and day after day I open the quality newspapers—even the newspaper of which I was at one time chairman—and read no evidence whatever of the discussions which have taken place. It really is important for this House and for the country at large that the things which are said in this House should be more broadly reported.

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, I agree very much with the noble Lord that one would wish to see greater coverage of what takes place here. I must say that I think that since broadcasting was brought in, what goes on in this House in the way of business and speeches has got to the public ear very much more successfully than happened up to that time. I think that that was an important addition. Unfortunately, the Press Gallery here is not always as full as noble Lords would wish, but this is a matter for the journals concerned. Certainly, the more contact there can be between the Lobby and noble Lords the better. I think that that has always been the case. It is a question of working both ways. It is not only journalists seeking access here but also us trying to put our points over to the media.

Lord ARDWICK

My Lords, on the subject of getting the work of this House better known to the wider world, I wonder whether the noble Lord the Leader of the House has read the Hansard of the debate that we had on the report of the Select Committee on Textiles on which both the noble Lord, Lord Rhodes, and I spoke of the need not merely to publish but to publicise these splendid documents. Even on the publication side there was a poor distribution of this notable report on textiles. I hope that the noble Lord has read it or will read it and will be able to assure the House that some arrangements are possible to make the good work known.

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, many efforts have been made, but without the degree of success that we would have wished.

Lord PLANT

My Lords, do I detect in the reply from the noble Lord the Leader of the House a desire to take this matter away and sympathetically to review it?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, I have every sympathy with the thought that underlies the Question. There are two difficulties from my point of view. One is that the Administration Committee has given a lot of thought already to this and will doubtless continue to do so; secondly, there is not the extent of accommodation that we would wish to have. Subject to that limitation, the point has been well taken, and I hope that it will be well taken not only within this House but also outside it.

Lord TAYLOR

My Lords, could the noble Lord say who precisely is entitled to use the Lords' Bar at present?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, everyone in your Lordships' House.

Lord TAYLOR

My Lords, I believe it is open to many other persons as well. It is in the basement, is it not?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, it is certainly not confined to Members of your Lordships' House. It is open to anyone in the Palace of Westminster to use. It is a bar where such activities as underlie this Question could be carried on.

Lord TAYLOR

My Lords, would I not be right in suspecting that many of your Lordships have never visited the Lords' Bar?

Lord SOAMES

My Lords, that may be so. It is very agreeable and has access to the Terrace.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, on the issue of accommodation, will the noble Lord take this further point into consideration? At present the Lobby are excluded from the Princes Chamber, whereas they have access to the Members' Lobby at the other end of the corridor. Possibly if the Lobby correspondents were given access to the Princes Chamber, that might have a considerably ameliorating effect until proper accommodation can be found.

Lord SOAMES

I wonder whether the noble Earl is right, because the Peers' Lobby is really the equivalent of the Members' Lobby in the House of Commons, and members of the Lobby do have access to that.