HL Deb 19 July 1979 vol 401 cc1500-2

3.23 p.m.

Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, if they recognise Commonwealth countries in Africa and Asia which practise free democratic elections open to all political parties and to all persons of 18 years and over, they will agree to similar recognition of the Government in Rhodesia soon.

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, in the case of Rhodesia, the question is not one of recognition but of the granting of legal independence to a country for which Britain has a constitutional responsibility. Our intention is to bring Rhodesia to independence with the widest possible international acceptance.

Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARD

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Now that Rhodesia has joined the small but select band of Commonwealth countries which practise universal franchise, and as we have acknowledged certain régimes in the Commonwealth which, whatever their merits, cannot be called in any sense democratic, would not the Foreign Secretary recommend acknowledging these facts at the coming Commonwealth Conference? Might I further ask him whether he will, as soon as possible after the Conference, advise Her Majesty's Government to lift sanctions to enable this new Government to have a chance of survival?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, my noble friend will remember that we had quite a long debate on the Rhodesia problem last week. Much as I would like to add to what I had to say on that occasion, I really do not think that I can.

Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTON

My Lords, could the noble Lord tell us whether there are any Commonwealth countries in Africa which do practise free democratic elections open to all political parties? If so, which?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, just off the top of my head, so to speak, I would say Kenya.

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, does my noble friend realise that he was asked to agree 13 times? Does he disagree all 13 times?

Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTON

My Lords, when the noble Lord says Kenya, could he tell us which is the other party in Kenya which is allowed to take part in elections?

Lord ORAM

My Lords, is it not the case that recognition of a Government rests on far broader considerations than those implied in the rather simplistic way in the Question on the Order Paper? In particular, is it not the case in Rhodesia that the present Prime Minister's authority in these matters has recently been eroded by a judicial decision, so that his majority in their Parliament now rests on the 28 white votes of MPs who were not elected according to the principle of one man, one vote?

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, as I said in the original Answer, there is a difference between recognising a Government and giving independence. There are certain criteria for recognising Governments which, though they are in some degree applicable to giving independence to a country, are not always wholly the same.