HL Deb 04 July 1979 vol 401 cc370-2

2.55 p.m.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether in view of the fact that in France 10,000 teachers will be trained in computer methods over the next three years and keyboarding will become a mandatory subject in the fourth and fifth years at schools, similar action is being proposed in Britain.

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Baroness Young)

My Lords, responsibility for the education of pupils in secondary schools in this country in keyboarding and computer skills, as in other areas, rests primarily with the local education authorities and the schools themselves. So also does responsibility for arranging in-service training programmes for teachers. The Government are aware of the importance of preparing teachers and pupils to work with computers and with the micro-computers, which will have an important effect on the pattern of life and work in the future. A number of useful initiatives have already been taken by educational institutions, and the Government are considering whether any central initiative in this field is needed.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. I should like to ask her whether she would be willing to send out to local authorities recommendations or suggestions in regard to this, because it is going to affect employment in the future. Does she know that the French intend to install 10,000 micro-computers by 1981, and that if our pupils are not properly trained now they are going to have difficulty in getting jobs in the future?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, the Government have circulated local authorities on the question of what is already being done in schools by way of teaching on computers and micro-computers, and have also circulated a memorandum on this matter. In the time available I have not had an opportunity to check the figure of 10,000 teachers in France; but we have three long courses in computer education running at the moment and three part-time courses provided regionally with Department of Education and Science support.

Lord AVEBURY

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the autonomy of local education authorities in this matter may be harmful to the development of computer education, since a large variety of different courses has been adopted by different schools in different LEAs, and that therefore the enormous purchasing power which would be held by the educational sector as a whole if a common policy was to be evolved is being forfeited? Therefore, would the noble Baroness consider developing something like the Computer Board, which purchases on behalf of universities and gets the bulk discounts which are derived from their purchasing power, so that all orders for computers placed by local education authorities and schools could be coordinated through such a body?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, the noble Lord has raised a very interesting point, but of course before the Government considered altering the relationship with local education authorities regarding the curriculum they would have to reconsider the whole of the accepted way in which that curriculum is decided.

Baroness DAVID

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether, in view of the fact that her party has said that it wishes to improve standards in education, the Government are going to cut the money which is provided for the in-service training of teachers? Is that to be one of the cuts which is to take place in the education service, or is it thought that in-service training is so important in the improvement of standards that more money will be provided for that purpose?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, the question of the in-service training of teachers is outside the particular Question which has been asked, but, of course, it would be for local education authorities to determine how they use the money which is available to them.

Baroness DAVID

But, my Lords, if I may come back to the Minister, is it not true that the last Government put money into the rate support grant for the purpose of in-service training? I am willing to admit that it was not always used for that purpose.

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I think this is another question.

Lord SPENS

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there is a polytechnic in this country which has a computer terminal which is so little used that the majority of the teachers do not know where it is? I am told that only two of the teachers use it, and that only very occasionally. And that polytechnic is supposed to teach business management studies.

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, the noble Lord has in fact given me a piece of information which I had not at my fingertips. Perhaps he would be good enough to write to me about it, and I shall be glad to follow it up.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, would the Minister not agree that it might be better for the younger pupils in our schools to be taught the multiplication tables, at least, before getting on to computer techniques?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for raising that point. That is one of the reasons why we put the improvement of educational standards in our Manifesto, and we are trying to do all that we can to carry this out.