EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: REPRESENTATION (Hansard, 25 January 1979)

§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTER
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Boston of Faversham)
My Lords, the articles of the Community Treaties providing for a European Assembly and for its direct election do not apply to the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands or Gibraltar. It is not possible, therefore, for them to have representation in the Assembly.

§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTER
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that opinion in Gibraltar appears to be very disappointed about this, and can he give them any reassurance that the European Parliament will take care of the interests particularly of this isolated community at the southern end of Spain?

§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAM
My Lords, we are aware that there is a certain feeling in Gibraltar about this matter and in fact, as the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, will probably know, there were representations about this from Parliamentarians in Gibraltar, both from individual Members of the Gibraltar House of Representatives and also from some of them as a group. Noble Lords may also recall that in fact some of them wished to have this matter referred to a conference called by Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, because of the constitutional position, it was not possible for that wish to be met because Mr. Speaker's jurisdiction only extends to matters within the United Kingdom itself.
So far as the second part of the supplementary question put by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, is concerned, I think probably it would be wrong for me to anticipate what the European Parliament itself might do, but I feel quite sure that those who are involved there, both in ministerial and in other capacities, will certainly bear in mind what the noble Lord has said and will take account of his remarks.

§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTER
My Lords, I am much obliged.

Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTON
My Lords, are not these territories to be congratulated upon being saved the trouble and expense of taking part in this fatuous and most expensive performance?

§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAM
My Lords, I do not know that it would be appropriate for me to venture into that particular sphere but again no doubt those observations of my noble friend will be noted.

§ Lord DUNCAN-SANDYS
My Lords, is it not quite wrong to disfranchise the residents of these territories? Feeling as I do that it is most unlikely that the other nations which are Members of the Community would have the slightest objection to a vote being given to the British citizens of these territories, may I ask whether, if there has been any mistake, as there appears to have been, in the drafting of the Treaty of Accession to the Community, Her Majesty's Government will consider raising the matter in the Council of Ministers of the Community?

§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAM
My Lords, I do, of course, appreciate the concern of those who take the sort of view which the noble Lord, Lord Duncan-Sandys, has taken, but I do feel nevertheless that it is important to stress what is the constitutional position here, despite any concern of that kind which might be felt. It is the fact that the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and Gibraltar, as we know, are not represented here at Westminster, that they are, of course, all dependencies of the Crown outside the United Kingdom; and so far as the European Assembly is concerned it is in fact a fundamental principle that this will be composed of Members representing Member States. The decision that was taken, as no doubt the noble Lord will recall, was taken by the Council of Ministers in December, 1976. It was in accord with that fundamental principle, and so it would be wrong for me to hold out any hope whatsoever that that fundamental principle would be departed from.

§ Lord PARGITER
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that as far as the Channel Islands are concerend they seem to be satisfied with the arrangements which give them much of the benefits of the Community without any of the expense of the Community?

§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAM
My Lords, there may be something in what my noble friend has said. Of course, it 1551 is also the case that many of the Community's key obligations do not apply to Gibraltar or to the Islands themselves.

§ Baroness ELLES
My Lords, is not the Minister using the constitutional position rather as a cover up of the situation? Could the Minister confirm that there is nothing in the Convention dealing with direct elections for the nine Member States which prevents the citizens of any Member State voting in these elections? How is it that countries like Denmark and Italy can allow their subjects who are not living within those countries to take part in the European elections, and this Government apparently denies them that particular right?

§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAM
My Lords, I would certainly disagree with what the noble Baroness has said about denial of rights. So far as the last point is concerned, this was, of course, fairly closely covered in an extensive exchange which took place in your Lordships' House on 7th December, when I think my noble friend Lord Wells-Pestell dealt with the various points that arose then. Perhaps that is a separate matter from the particular one we are considering today. I would also, as I indicated, disagree with the noble Baroness about the initial point which she made. It is in fact the case that if any change were to be made this would involve changing United Kingdom law. It would involve renegotiating the decision on direct elections, and indeed changing the relationship of the Islands and Gibraltar with the Community. So far as that relationship is concerned, it is governed by international agreement, and Her Majesty's Government do not, I am afraid, see any grounds at all for renegotiating either the Treaty of Accession or the decision.