§ 2.38 p.m.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that the Director of Public Prosecutions does not consider a broadcasting studio to be a public place within the meaning of the Public Order Act 1936 and whether they consider that amendments to that Act, and to the Race Relations Act 1976, should be brought before Parliament as a matter of urgency so that a person using words that are threatening, abusive or insulting such that hatred is likely to be stirred up against any racial group in Great Britain on the air can be prosecuted.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Boston of Faversham)My Lords, the Government are aware that the Director of Public Prosecutions has expressed the opinion to which the noble Lord refers. The BBC and the Independent Broadcasting Authority already have to ensure, so far as possible, that nothing is included in their broadcast programmes which is likely to encourage or incite to crime or lead to disorder or to be offensive to public feeling. It may occasionally—for example, in a live unscripted broadcast—be difficult for the broadcasting authorities to carry out this requirement. The Government are not at present convinced that legislation is the appropriate answer, but they will give 1519 further consideration to the matter, in consultation with the broadcasting authorities.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Does he not think, however, that if people who appear on radio and television programmes are aware that anything that they say is immune from prosecution, under either the Public Order Act or the Race Relations Act, this will encourage them to give themselves up to the most extreme sentiments? Is the noble Lord aware that the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality has said that this revelation by the Director of Public Prosecutions could have serious implications? Will he, therefore, in consultation with the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality and the broadcasting authorities, examine this matter as a question of urgency?
§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAMMy Lords, I can certainly confirm that in examining this matter—which, as I have already indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, we shall be doing—we shall take into consideration some of the very points which the noble Lord has mentioned. The noble Lord has pinpointed a particular problem in relation to broadcasting which it appears, on first examination at any rate, Parliament did not grapple with in all the discussions that took place both here and in another place when this legislation was passing through Parliament. So I, for one, am grateful to the noble Lord for having drawn everybody's attention, both Houses of Parliament included, to this particular point. There are certain differences between the kind of safeguards which the Public Order Act 1936, as amended by the Race Relations Act 1976, aimed at, in particular the possibility of imminent violence arising either as a result of something said in the street or as a result of something said on the public platform. There is a difference, of course, between that and broadcasting. Having said that, certainly I undertake to take into account what the noble Lord has said.
§ Lord GLENKINGLASMy Lords, does not the Minister agree with me that part of the trouble at least arises because the television authorities go out of their 1520 way to find extreme views in order to make the programme, in their view, more interesting? Is not this something which the Government and the BBC should be considering?
§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAMMy Lords, I do not know whether I go all the way with what the noble Lord has said, in particular about broadcasting authorities going out of their way to encourage such people to take part. I should not have thought that that was the case. Indeed, Parliament has laid very severe restrictions indeed, among the ones which I mentioned in my original Answer, upon both the broadcasting organisations to make sure that the public are safeguarded. However, when I examine this question I shall bear in mind what the noble Lord has said. So far as sanctions are concerned, there is always an ultimate sanction, which Parliament has provided for.