HL Deb 05 February 1979 vol 398 cc451-3

2.56 p.m.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the President of Tanzania, who now appears to be at war with the dictator of Uganda, appreciates what this country is doing to sustain the morale of Amin and his entourage by the lavish exports of Scotch whisky.

The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Stedman)

My Lords, I am sure that the President of Tanzania is aware that United Kingdom policy on civil trade with Uganda remains as stated by my noble friend Lord Goronwy-Roberts in his reply to my noble friend Lord Brockway on 31st January. Total United Kingdom exports to Uganda in 1978 were £19 million, of which £0.3 million was alcoholic beverages—not all whisky.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, I understand what the noble Baroness has said and I should like to ask two supplementary questions. First, do Her Majesty's Government sympathise with the efforts which the President of Tanzania is apparently making to rid the Commonwealth of the appalling monster who now rules Uganda? Secondly, if they do so sympathise, would it not encourage, and be acceptable to, Mr. Julius Nyerere, if they were able to stop all trade between this country and Uganda, which, after all, would not cost this country very much?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, if I may take first the second part of the noble Lord's supplementary question, I should say that we are not happy with the, view that it would be proper to terminate the trade at the moment. We need to keep the trade lines open for various other reasons. With regard to the President of Tanzania, we have always made it quite plain that we believe that the African disputes ought, where possible, to be settled in an African context, and we hope that the situation can be established where these two neighbouring countries can live at peace. Her Majesty's Government have made available to the Government of Tanzania programme aid amounting to about £1 million to be used, subject to the normal conditions attached to such aid, for civilian rehabilitation purposes in the Kagera region. This is additional to the £2.5 million programme which we made available recently for other purposes.

Lord BOOTHBY

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that nobody should ever attempt to prevent the export of Scotch whisky to anyone, even to cannibals, because it can have only a soothing and wholly beneficial effect?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, I am sure that the House accepts the noble Lord's free gratis advertisement for the whisky of his homeland.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the President of Tanzania, with whom I discussed this issue only last month, denies that Tanzania is at war with Uganda? Will she consult her own Commission in Nairobi, which I think will inform her that the Ugandans who were found dead in Tanzania were killed by another Ugandan battalion, and that the only action which Tanzania has taken has been to reply by artillery when she has been invaded?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, I note the noble Lord's comments, and I am quite sure that my colleague and noble friend Lord Goronwy-Roberts has also noted them, but they are not really tied up with this particular Question.

Lord HAWKE

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that President Amin is by no means unique as a monster in black Africa? There are other rulers who appear to be almost as bad.