§ 2.43 p.m.
Lord DE CLIFFORDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether research is still continuing to find ways of abating the dangers of accidents and inconvenience to road users caused by multi-wheeled vehicles travelling at high speeds during inclement weather; whether any results have accrued from past research; and whether these results are sufficiently advanced to enable regulations to be laid before Parliament to alleviate this menace.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, a new programme of research has recently been started, in conjunction with Southampton University, to establish methods of measuring spray and to test devices for reducing the amount thrown up by heavy lorries. I fear that the results of research to date are disappointing and do not provide the basis for any 691 new regulations. A copy of a report on this matter published by the Deprtment of Transport in April this year is available in the Library of this House.
Lord DE CLIFFORDMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, may I ask whether he is aware that it is two years since I last asked this Question, and apparently for two years we have had no answer? Is he aware that the matter is serious because today for the first time the air was flooded with warnings about spray on motorways? Is it not a fact—I have no doubt my noble friend will correct me if I am wrong—that on the Continent there are regulations about this matter, and that in America they have advanced in their research to the extent that they are putting a form of sponge under wheels, which I understand reduces the spray considerably?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I am well aware that this problem has been with us for a long time, and noble Lords opposite when in office were dealing with this matter in the same way as I have been dealing with it. It is true to say that this is not a British problem; it is a world wide problem and, despite the efforts being made by the United States and Sweden in particular, I understand they are not having any greater success than we are at present. Regulations can be made, but unless one has the scientific data to prove they will achieve something, they are not very helpful. The best advice we give is that drivers should drive more slowly in such weather to make conditions safer for other road users.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that many people fear that, if scientific research showed that risks arose to other road users as mentioned in the Question, the information would be withheld from the public by the Department of Transport, as they have done recently with another survey which showed that heavy vehicles cause a disproportionate amount of damage to road surfaces? Is he further aware that within the Department of Transport there seems to be a very powerful lobby of support for large vehicles, which prevents an unbiased view of the problem being taken?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I rather resent the implication that, where road safety and death are an issue, the department, or any Government department, would conceal matters; I do not think that is true. We are trying to find the answer and I repeat that no country is having any great success in this matter, which is common to all countries. As soon as the Road Research Laboratory and the University of Southampton in conjunction with our officials can find some reasonable advice to produce to the Government, who can then issue orders to manufacturers to use such advice, we shall do so, but until we have scientific evidence to tell people what to do, issuing orders is pointless.
§ Lord NUGENT of GUILDFORDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the information from the United States about the device to which my noble friend Lord de Clifford referred is that it is giving an encouraging result? Would he ask the Road Research Laboratory to look into this specifically to see whether it is sufficiently developed to make a useful contribution to solving what we all well understand is a baffling and difficult problem?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONI thank my noble friend for those comments, my Lords. A different set of circumstances exist in the United States where, if my memory serves me aright, they have a universal speed limit of 50 or 55 mph. We all know that if heavy goods vehicles, indeed any vehicles, keep their speed down to 40 mph on occasions when heavy spray is caused, the spray concealing the vision of vehicles behind largely disappears. Our trouble is that on motorways large lorries are allowed to travel up to 60 mph whereas in America that is not the case, so the problem here is rather greater than it is in the States.
§ Viscount HANWORTHMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that, although the spray comes from both the rear and the sides, if one eliminates what is coming from the rear with flaps, that at least helps lessen the problem because if one is over-taking a relatively slow-moving lorry one is blinded only while overtaking? Would he consider this point because there seems no logical reason why we should not go half the way?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONI agree with the noble Viscount, my Lords, and the law as it stands—if the House would like the details, they are Regulations 61, 66 and 79 of the Motor Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations 1978—already contains a general requirement for vehicles to be fitted with wings or other fittings which as far as practicable prevent mud and water from being thrown up by the wheels unless adequate protection is afforded by the body of the vehicle. It is not possible to go further than that at the present time.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, will my noble friend also take into account pavement users—pedestrians—sometimes where there are no pavements at all?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I think that all of us will have sympathy with the noble Lord in his observation, and again I can only recommend to the road users, especially those using heavy vehicles, that they take note of the fact that courtesy is due not only to other road users but to pedestrians, too.
Lord DE CLIFFORDMy Lords, without taking much more time of the House, may I point out that when I last asked this Question I was told that research was being undertaken into the subject of road surfaces, which is one of the matters which caused the greatest hazard. Can the noble Lord give the House any information as to results on that matter?
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, I am not sure that I have the full implication of my noble friend's supplementary question. I might add, however, in regard to poor visibility, that arising from bad observation in driving there are 7,000 accidents a year, though some of these may not arise from spray hazard but from fog.