INSPECTORATE FOR SCHOOLS (Hansard, 4 April 1979)

§ Lord BELSTEAD
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge)
My Lords, the number of Her Majesty's Inspectors of Schools in England declined from 443 at 1st January 1974 to 404 at 1st January 1979, at which dates the Inspectorate's target establishment was 478 and 430, respectively. Numbers in post have not been deliberately reduced, but reflect particularly the difficulty of recruiting people who possess the combination of personal qualities, experience and qualifications which the Inspectorate requires. The reduction of the target establishment figure was made within the context of the Government's policy of restraining the size of the public services, and in the light of the number of Her Majesty's Inspectors that might realistically be achieved in the immediate future.

§ Lord BELSTEAD
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply, but how can there really be any confidence that the Government's commitment to improving educational standards can be maintained when, at the same time, the numbers of the Inspectorate have been allowed to fall? I appreciate the diffi- 1898 culties which the noble Lord mentioned in his reply, but I must ask what steps are now being taken to put matters right.

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGE
My Lords, the decline in the number of Her Majesty's Inspectors arose first because of restraints on Civil Service manpower in the early 1970s, when the noble Lord was, I think, Parliamentary Under-Secretary in the Department of Education and Science. The Department prevented recruitment from filling the gaps created by retirements and other losses, then reflecting a post-war peak. Since that time there have not been enough applicants of sufficient quality who possess the necessary combination of experience, qualifications and personal qualities to replace those leaving the Inspectorate. In answer to the second half of the noble Lord's supplementary question, in 1977–78, 30 inspectors were recruited, compared with 23 in 1976–77. We are hoping that numbers will come closer to the target figure during the next 12 months. Already 15 recruits have joined this year as a result of three competitions. There are four major competitions planned for June and July, and we hope to see the numbers rise.

§ Baroness BACON
My Lords—

§ Baroness GAITSKELL
Surely, my Lords, the criterion is not just the number of inspectors. Surely, in some ways it is the least important of the criteria that we should apply when talking about education. I apologise to my noble friend.

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGE
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. That is the point I am trying to make. If we could get more inspectors we would do so provided their quality was of an order that we think adequate.

§ Baroness BACON
My Lords, is it not a fact that the party opposite has said that it is going to reduce public expenditure; and, therefore, if the party opposite comes to power in the next few weeks, is it not likely that we shall see a further reduction in these figures?

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGE
My Lords, I think it is not unlikely, I have to confess. But if, in 1899 fact, the party opposite were to take over the educational reins—if such an unfortunate event should happen—they would find that there is no shortage of cash put aside for the recruitment of Her Majesty's Inspectors. The shortage is of bodies.

§ Viscount ECCLES
My Lords, can the Minister say whether there is still overlapping between Her Majesty's Inspectors' duties and those of inspectors appointed by the local authorities, especially in London; and would it not be a good thing to concentrate Her Majesty's Inspectors on research and on helping the Secretary of State in policy matters?

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGE
My Lords, I think the main function of Her Majesty's Inspectors must be inspection. There is no intention to alter that. As to the relationship with local authority inspectors, I must ask the noble Viscount to put down a Question for Written Answer, which I or a colleague will answer in due course, perhaps.

§ Lord BELSTEAD
My Lords, as we seem to be on the edge of the hustings at the moment, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that his replies reveal that both the numbers of and the target for the Inspectorate have fallen during the period of office of his Government, and that that is nothing whatsoever to be proud of? At the same time, may I thank the noble Lord for the information which he has given and ask him this further question: If the reply which the noble Lord last gave was that the main function of the Inspectorate is to inspect, can the noble Lord give me the number of full inspections of schools which Her Majesty's Inspectorate are now able annually to carry out?

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGE
First, my Lords, I have exhibited no pride at the difficulty of getting inspectors of an adequate standard, and I think it wrong to suggest that I have. Secondly, in 1976, the last year for which figures are available, Her Majesty's Inspectors visited about a quarter of all maintained primary schools and two-thirds of all maintained secondary schools—which is a fairly high record.

§ Lord ORR-EWING
My Lords, would the noble Lord like to withdraw the "perhaps" from his reply to an earlier supplementary question? Is he aware that all Ministers will continue to draw their pay until polling day?—which gives another four weeks in which there is time adequately to reply to any Question which might be put down.

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGE
My Lords, I shall be delighted to answer any Questions put to me during the next four weeks. I had thought that the noble Viscount might be very busy during that period.

§ Lord REDCLIFFE-MAUD
My Lords, would the Minister agree that a very satisfactory fact has emerged, at any rate to Members on the Cross-Benches, that both main parties, and no doubt the Liberals too, realise that one of the most important things that have happened since the war is the improvement in standards which the Inspectorate has been able, by one means or another, to achieve? It is most important that, whoever is returned to office, this improvement should be resumed or continued.

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGE
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, and when we return to office we shall do exactly as he says.