§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what response has been made to the proposal by the Council for Mutual Economic Assistance (COMECON) to the European Economic Community (EEC) for an agreement for economic co-operation.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, the CMEA's proposal was received in February 1976. In November 1976 the EEC responded by proposing an alternative draft agreement defining the forms and procedures for relations between the Community and the CMEA. Negotiations between the two sides are continuing. The Government hope that they will soon be brought to a successful conclusion.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. Is it not rather disappointing that there should be this long delay in carrying out the core of the Helsinki Agreement, which was economic co-operation? Cannot something now be done, either in these negotiations or through the European Commission, to speed up economic co-operation, which must be the basis for all other spheres?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, it is of course the Government's policy to ensure, so far as they can, that all signatories to the Helsinki Agreement observe, both in the letter and in the spirit of that document, its objectives. In pursuance of that policy, in November 1124 1974 the Community sent to each CMEA member State an identical outline of the kind of subjects which might be covered in trade agreements between the Community and the individual CMEA member States. It is true that discussions have taken quite a long time, but this is an extremely important matter and it is right to get it absolutely correct before we agree to a solution. It might be said that before everybody affixed their signatures to the Helsinki Agreement they should have understood very clearly that, in so doing, they were expected to implement its provisions to the full. We propose to approach this particular agreement in that spirit.
Lord CHELWOODMy Lords, is it not a fact that a number of formerly independent countries in Europe which are now members of COMECON insist on having bilateral trade agreements with the EEC itself and co-operation agreements with individual members of the EEC, and that in any case COMECON does not have either the mandate or the organisation to enter into direct commercial relations with the EEC?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, that is broadly our understanding of the situation. For that reason, the Community has conveyed to the CMEA that it is prepared as a Community to deal with member States of the CMEA. Under that umbrella, business deals between member States of the Community can, of course, proceed with member States in Eastern Europe. This is our view. We are now discussing the matter with the CMEA.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is it not the case that the proposal included individual nations negotiating with the EEC? But, more important, may I ask the Minister whether it is true that economic co-operation has actually declined? Is it true, as stated in The Times of 23rd November, that imports from Eastern Europe declined from 34 per cent. in 1976 to only 4 per cent. in the first six months of this year and that exports to Eastern Europe declined from 7 per cent. in 1976 to only 1 per cent. in the first six months of this year? Does not this illustrate the urgency of the issue?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, without advice I could not confirm or contradict my noble friend on the figures which he has given. However, we have a very large and, so far as I can see, flourishing trade with Eastern Europe. We want to continue and expand it on the proper basis which was indicated in outline a moment ago by the noble Lord, Lord Chelwood. I see no reason why the kind of agreement which the Community has already concluded successfully with the ACP countries under the Lome Convention, with EFTA and with a number of Mediterranean States, and which it has recently concluded in the form of its co-operation agreement with China, should not equally be applicable to the CMEA organisation of countries.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, is it not true that the Russians, who, after all, control the Eastern European economies, are finding it very difficult and are almost refusing to negotiate with the EEC as a whole? Consequently, does not this possibly indicate why some of the figures quoted by the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, have fallen to the level that they have?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I think it is a point that the figures need to be looked at very carefully, and the noble Earl has made that point. He also implicitly made the valuable point that the Community is prepared to have an umbrella agreement with the CMEA within which two things are possible. Member States of the Community will be enabled to have business dealings with member States in the CMEA, thus maintaining and expanding the trade that my noble friend Lord Brockway quite rightly advocated; secondly, the Community itself wishes to negotiate a trade agreement as distinct from business dealings with, so far as possible, individual member States in Eastern Europe. It is for those member States to indicate whether they wish CMEA to act for them. We are not satisfied that that is the position at present.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, is not the position that COMECON and the EEC are in no way comparable entities?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, that is the short and the best 1126 answer of all; they are not comparable, but we continue to negotiate to see whether comparability can somehow be achieved.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, is it not a fact that it is not so much agreement between the member States of the Euro pean Economic Community and the member States of COMECON that are in question, but it is two points: First, the industries within the member States of the Community and the States of COMECON and, secondly, a growing effort on the part of this country to ensure that the agreements between—
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, may I ask whether it is not a fact that there is a growing tendency in this country to ensure that the companies in this country do negotiate with organisations within the COMECON countries and that that is something which we should like to see encouraged?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSCertainly, my Lords, on the first point, I repeat that business dealings by companies and organisations, whether private or public, in individual Western States with State organisations in the Eastern States continue to be perfectly possible. What is at issue is whether CMEA, as the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, has put it, is entitled to equate itself with the EEC as an organisation for a generalised purpose. There are certain areas of competence for the EEC which are well understood and there is the possibility of what I call "umbrella agreements" under which, State by State, company by organisation, exchanges can move forward.
We have just had a protracted discussion with the CMEA on these questions, which went on until very late at night. I should like to inform the House that nothing like a breakdown occurred. There was not absolute agreement, but both sides agreed that they would take home their own version of the decision reached and would return at a future date to discuss the matter. There is the possibility that there will be a meeting of experts in the future to try to iron out these difficulties.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, can the Minister give us an assurance—
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, we have had nearly 10 minutes on this Question, and I think it would be the wish of the House that we should move on.