§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what response has been made to the proposals made by three elected members of the Urban Council of Hong Kong that democracy should be extended in the colony by (a) the inclusion of elected members in the Legislature; (b) adult franchise for long-stay residents; (c) the phasing out of appointed members on the Urban Council, and (d) an extension of the jurisdiction of the Urban Council to include housing, education, social welfare and town planning.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, the three councillors were told that Her Majesty's Government naturally desire to see progress towards a more representative system of government in Hong Kong at the right time and always bearing in mind the paramount need to maintain the stability and prosperity of the territory.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, would not the Minister agree that these are very moderate proposals?—only the suggestion of one-third of the Legislature being elected and the phasing-out of the appointed members of the Urban Council. Is not the Urban Council capable of dealing with these local issues like other authorities?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the reforms which my noble friend has mentioned are, I can assure 974 him and the House, continuously under consideration by my right honourable friend and the Governor of Hong Kong. There is no objection in principle to the attainment, in appropriate stages and at the right time, of more representative government in this territory. We have an obligation—I am sure my noble friend would agree with me here—always to bear in mind the very special circumstances in which this territory is, and has been, as a dependency of this country. Subject to that, we are in agreement with the long-term objectives of my noble friend and others.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I ask this: is there not a danger that the growing demand in Hong Kong itself for democracy may lead to an explosive situation? Is the Minister aware, for example, that these three councillors topped the poll, on a percentage basis, in the recent elections for the Urban Council and that they included Elsie Elliot, who began the exposure of corruption? Would my noble friend not agree that it would be of great advantage that, when the lease from China ends, we should show an example of democracy in Hong Kong itself?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am very glad to join my noble friend in paying tribute to the repute and capacity of the three councillors—and there are others—who have written to us about these matters. I do so again from this Box. They represent constructive views, but they are not, of course, the only views expressed in Hong Kong which we consider very carefully indeed.
As to my noble friend's reference to corruption, I am sure he will join with me in paying tribute to the independent commission for the tremendous results which, under Mr. Cater, it has achieved in the last two to three years. A real impression has been made by that commission upon the dreadful problem of corruption in the territory. My noble friend referred to Hong Kong as moving towards democracy. It has in fact made very great strides. It has a free Press, which not every country which describes itself as a democracy—people's or otherwise—can lay claim to. Comment is free: indeed, on the occasions when I have visited the territory it has been very free 975 indeed, especially as addressed to me! As I have said, people of great capacity and repute have advanced these ideas, and there are others who have argued against them.
We shall continue to examine these matters carefully and continuously, always bearing in mind that Hong Kong is perhaps sui generis and that its assured future depends on this country and its own Government keeping always in mind its need for stability and prosperity.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, notwithstanding the fact that there are these special circumstances to which the Minister has referred, why should those special circumstances make it appropriate for the people of Hong Kong to enjoy a far smaller degree of control over their own affairs than, for example, the people of the Solomon Islands, to whom we have just given independence?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSBecause, my Lords, as I have said, the circumstances in Kong Hong are not those which apply to any other territory. I have described it as being sui generis. Hong Kong is not the Solomons; nor are the Solomons Hong Kong; and it is, if I may say so with great respect to the noble Lord, very misleading to draw comparisons between one territory and another. They vary very much indeed in history, in persisting circumstances and certainly in need.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, can my noble friend inform the House as to whether the authorities of the People's Republic of China are consulted before any constitutional changes are made in Hong Kong? In view of the excellent relations existing between Hong Kong and the mainland, would they look favourably upon any extension of democracy in the Colony?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, there is, of course, no such consultation. Consultation is always between the Government of Hong Kong and the Government of the United Kingdom. But between us and the People's Republic there are very good relations, which many would think are improving at the present moment. Therefore, in our policy we 976 have regard for external relations, but I repeat that there is no question of consultation.