Lords Sitting of 25 May 1978

Preamble
The House met at eleven of the clock: The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES On the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Bradford

SPAIN: EEC ENTRY AND THE GIBRALTAR PROBLEM
Lord BOYD-CARPENTER: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government why in their view the question of removal of the Spanish blockade of Gibraltar must not be linked with the question of possible Spanish entry into the European Economic Community.
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, the British Government have consistently welcomed the Spanish application to join the EEC. We consider that it would be wrong, and moreover unproductive, to link the Spanish application to progress over Gibraltar. We hope that the Gibraltar problem can be resolved as between partners and friends before Spain's formal entry into the Community.
Lord BOYD-CARPENTER: My Lords, while I fully understand the wishes of the Government in the matter, may I ask whether it is in fact practicable to separate these issues inasmuch as it would plainly be a breach, both of the letter and of the spirit, of the Treaty of Rome for one Member of the Community aggressively to blockade the territory of another? Would it not therefore be better to clear this matter out of the way rather than to risk, as the Government's policy seems to risk, an embarrassing confrontation at the moment of formal application for membership?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, I follow perfectly the noble Lord's arguments, and one could perhaps discuss this matter for ever. Nevertheless, the Government have chosen what they think to be the most productive path. Under the Treaty of Rome all
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democratic States in Europe should be within the Community, and we want Spain to be in it. Of course, once Spain became a member of the Community it would be absolutely unthinkable that it should continue to keep up this blockade. That is simply the position.
Lord BOYD-CARPENTER: My Lords, does not that answer given by the noble Baroness really accept the proposition that I was putting—that there is an inescapable link between these two matters—for, surely, what the noble Baroness has just said is that as from the moment of election to membership Spain would be bound to relax the restrictions?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, it is important for the House to realise that relations between democratic Spain and this country are very much better than they have ever been, and indeed Spain is getting closer to Gibraltar. We are quite sure that the best way of tackling this problem is to promote these closer relations. Of course, it goes without saying that we shall always respect the wishes of the Gibraltarians for their future, but we are working towards ever closer relations with Spain.
Lord WIGG: My Lords, is the noble Baroness not aware that the entry of Spain into the Community is only the prelude to Spain's entering NATO, and that that fact should be faced up to now? Is it not wrong for Spain to continue, not in words but in actions, in active hostility to an important community in the British Commonwealth of Nations for one day longer if in fact, at the back of their mind, the Government know perfectly well that it is first the Community and then NATO?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, I think to use the expression "active hostility" is really most unfortunate. Relations are getting better and we must not denigrate the situation; we must try to encourage it. The remainder of the noble Lord's remarks were rather outside the scope of this Question.
Lord O'HAGAN: My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House what steps Her Majesty's Government have taken to ensure that the views of the people of

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Gibraltar are taken into account and listened to by our colleagues in the European Economic Community during the process leading up to enlargement, and what avenues they have for expressing their anxieties about that future to the rest of the Member States, apart from the normal channels of communication with this country?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, I am quite sure that the other Members of the Community are very much aware of our situation with Gibraltar. They know how we stand with the Gibraltarians, and how we think of them and their future. Nobody can be under any illusions about that. We must just hope that conditions will improve, as I am sure they will. Indeed, they already show signs of improvement. The Foreign Secretary has met with Senor Oreja, the Foreign Secretary of Spain, and, above all, the Spaniards have gone to Gibraltar, some of them for the first time. Things are moving—we are setting up working groups to discuss particular questions—and it is very important that the House should not let it go out to the world that we consider the situation to be still as it was formerly, because that is not so.
Lord O'HAGAN: My Lords, is the noble Baroness saying that there are working groups in the Council of Ministers which are looking at the problems of Gibraltar, as well as other matters, in the context of enlarging the Community?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: No, my Lords. The working groups are between representatives of Britain, Spain and Gibraltar.
Lord SIMON of GLAISDALE: My Lords, is not a blockade an act of war in international law, and will that be taken into account in any negotiations?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, everything will be taken into account. As I think the noble and learned Lord will know, some of the restrictions on telephones, for instance, have already been lifted. It will be a gradual process, but the Government are hopeful.
Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARD: My Lords, will the noble Baroness not agree that Spain is a proud nation and that to insist on the lifting of the blockade of Gibraltar as a prior condition to Spain's joining the EEC would almost smack of blackmail? Perhaps I am not using the right word there. However, is the noble Baroness aware that I quite agree with the attitude of Her Majesty's Government in this matter?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, I am astonished and delighted.
Lord GLADWYN: My Lords, would not the noble Baroness agree that, seeing that Spain cannot possibly come into the Community for a good many years, the problem for the moment can hardly be described as very urgent.
Lord MORRIS: My Lords, would not Her Majesty's Government agree that to make the whole question of Gibraltar a condition precedent on the Spanish application to the EEC is totally wrong, for the simple reason that it was not made a condition precedent to our application to join the EEC?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord. That is indeed so.
Lord WIGG: My Lords, the noble Baroness deplored my use of the word "hostility". The noble and learned Lord, Lord Simon, went a little further and described it as an "act of war". Would she care to make a distinction between the two?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, I think that would be unprofitable.
Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYE: My Lords, while the atmosphere is the improving one which the noble Baroness describes, will the Government consider asking the Spanish Government forthwith, as a gesture of goodwill, to remove the restrictions on air travel navigation into Gibraltar which cause a daily menace unnecessary for passenger and aircrew to endure?
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, we are very much aware of the situation in the Spanish prohibited air zone and again I must stress that consultations are taking place all the time. This is one of the things we have very much in the forefront of our minds and we must hope for the best.
Lord LEATHERLAND: My Lords, may I ask my noble friend —and I do so as one who is rather dismayed at the diminishing number of red spots on the map of the world—whether she is aware of the fact that many of us, at least on this side of the House, are very well satisfied with the manner in which these negotiations are being conducted?

EEC COUNCIL OF MINISTERS: JUNE BUSINESS
11.12 a.m.
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, a Statement is being made today in another place about business to be taken during June in the EEC Council of Ministers. With the leave of the House, I will, as usual, arrange for the Statement to be made available in the Official Report.
Following is the Statement referred to:
"With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I will make a statement about business to be taken by Ministers of the European Community during June. The monthly written forecast was deposited on Monday 22nd May.
"At present, six meetings of the Council of Ministers are proposed for June. The Foreign Affairs Council will meet on 6th June and again on 26th and 27th June. The Transport Council will meet on 12th June, the Finance Council on 19th June, the Agriculture Council on 19th and 20th June and the Social Affairs Council on 29th June. In addition, it is probable that Fisheries Ministers will meet on or around 19th June.
"The Foreign Affairs Council is expected to review progress on the common strategy for growth and employment which is to be considered at the European Council at Bremen. Within this framework Ministers will discuss questions of economic and trade policy and their consequences for Community industry. The Council will continue its discussion of the Commission's survey of the implications of enlargement (known as the fresco'), and will also consider a progress report on the Greek accession negotiations and the Commission's opinion on Portugal's application for membership. The Council will also discuss the Community's relations with the Council of Mutual Economic Assistance (which is the economic grouping of the Soviet Union and
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its allies sometimes known as COMECON), progress in trade negotiations with Yugoslavia, relations between the Community and Australia, a report by the Commission on their contacts with the Japanese Government and a Commission communication on shipbuilding. The Council will examine the statement to be made by the Community at the opening of renegotiation of the Lomé Convention.
"The Transport Council is expected to consider maritime pollution caused by oil-tanker accidents, the United Nations code of conduct for liner conferences, maritime competition by State trading countries of Eastern Europe, priorities for work on civil aviation matters, commercial vehicle taxation systems, drivers' hours, co-operation between railway undertakings and, possibly, the harmonisation of summertime.
"The Agriculture Council will consider proposals for the organisation of the markets in mutton and lamb, and in potatoes. Fisheries Ministers may consider the future of reciprocal fishing arrangements with third countries, particularly Norway, Sweden and the Faroes, and may also resume discussion of the revision of the Common Fisheries Policy.
"The Finance Council is expected to consider the action needed in pursuit of the common strategy for economic recovery; and, possibly, the draft Directive on life assurance.
"The Social Affairs Council is expected to consider aids to promote the employment of young people, an action programme on safety and health at work, a proposal for protecting workers exposed to the gas vinyl chloride monomer used in the manufacture of PVC plastic material, and a Commission statement on the European Trade Union Institute. Members are also expected to consider the implications for the free movement of labour of the transfer of workers between Member States during industrial disputes"

ELECTRICITY (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
Lord STRABOLGI: My Lords, on behalf of my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor, I beg to introduce a Bill to consolidate certain enactments relating to the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board and the South of Scotland Electricity Board and to functions of the Secretary of State in relation to the generation and distribution of electricity in Scotland with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Scottish Law Commission. I beg to move that this Bill he now read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Strabolgi.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.

NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
Lord STRABOLGI: My Lords, on behalf of my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor, I beg to introduce a Bill to consolidate certain enactments relating to the National Health Service in Scotland. I beg to move that this Bill be now read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Strabolgi.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.

TUVALU BILL [H.L.]
Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.

TRUSTEE SAVINGS BANKS BILL
The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge): My Lords, I understand that no Amendments have been set down to this Bill and that no noble Lord has indicated a wish to move a manuscript Amendment or to speak in Committee. Therefore, unless any noble Lord objects, I beg to move that the Order of Commitment be discharged.
Moved, That the Order of Commitment be discharged.—(Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

PLANNING (AMENDMENT) (NORTHERN IRELAND) ORDER 1978
11.17 a.m.
The MINISTER of STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (Lord Melchett)The MINISTER of STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (Lord Melchett) rose to move, That the draft Planning (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 4th May, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, the purpose of this order is to up-date the planning law in Northern Ireland following four years' experience in administering the Planning Northern Ireland) Order 1972. The
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opportunity is also being taken to include a number of planning provisions which have been introduced recently in the rest of the United Kingdom. The most important new powers are contained in Part II, and I would like very briefly to outline these. The demolition of certain buildings in conservation areas is prohibited without consent by Article 4, and grants to improve these areas are being put on a statutory footing.
In line with Great Britain, Article 7 abolishes the four-year limit on the service of enforcement notices against unauthorised changes in the use of land or buildings. The four-year limit will continue to apply where a change to use as a single dwelling-house is involved and to new operations, for example, building, engineering or mining.
Article 11 widens the scope of stop notices. The Department will be able to serve a stop notice to halt any unauthorised activity whether it consists of actual operations, a change of use, or failure to comply with a condition attached to a planning permission. My Lords, these are welcome changes in Northern Ireland's planning law. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft Planning (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 4th May, be approved.—(Lord Melchett.)
Viscount LONG: My Lords, I am extremely grateful, and I am sure the whole House is extremely grateful, to the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, for explaining this order. I do not intend to keep him for very long, because I know he is extremely busy and has been extremely busy in Northern Ireland. Perhaps I could ask the noble Lord one or two simple questions, and I am trying not to be technical on any of them. Is Article 4 now in line with England, Scotland and Wales? Are we now bringing this Irish order up to the English standards? I wonder whether the noble Lord could answer that.
There is one other question which is worrying me slightly. Presumably within the area of the towns of Londonderry or the City of Armagh there must be conservation areas. Does this mean that, where the buildings have been severely demolished, they cannot be pulled down

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because they are under conservation or preservation orders, and they have to remain as they are? Some of them are probably rather dangerous, too. As regards Article 5 I should like to know what further expenditure it will entail. I have no further questions for the noble Lord. If he cannot answer my questions now, I should be most grateful if he could give me some information later in writing or otherwise.
Lord MELCHETT: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount for welcoming the order. The answer to his first question about Article 4 is, Yes, it brings the law in Northern Ireland into line with the law in Great Britain. The English equivalent is Section 277(a) of the Town and Country Planning Act 1971. As regards his second question, of course if a building is demolished by terrorist activity—which I imagine is what the noble Viscount was referring to—and certainly if any dangerous structures are left, powers are available for them to be removed, and removed quickly. That will not be affected by the order.
I confess that I do not have the information with me about the likely increased expenditure, if any, under, I think, Article 5 to which the noble Viscount referred. However, I imagine that, as this Article and, indeed, the order as a whole is simply updating the law, it is unlikely that substantial additional expenditure will be incurred. However, if there is any information available on that matter I shall certainly write to the noble Viscount and let him know.
Lord BROCKWAY: My Lords, I should like to say a word or two in welcoming the order. All of us who have been to Belfast recognise the need for new planning both for its general layout and for the appalling housing conditions which exist in that City. That is less so of Londonderry and hardly applies to Armagh, which is a very attractive city. I should also like to express my appreciation for what the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, is doing in Northern Ireland. From members of all Parties in Northern Ireland I have heard great appreciation of his work.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

HEALTH AND SAFETY AT WORK (NORTHERN IRELAND) ORDER 1978
11.23 a.m.
Lord MELCHETT: My Lords, I beg to move that the draft Health and Safety at Work (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 11th May, be approved. The 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act did not apply to Northern Ireland. In 1974 a joint consultative group, consisting of representatives of the Northern Ireland Council of the CBI, the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Department of Manpower Services, was asked to consider what arrangements should be made in Northern Ireland in the light of the legislative and administrative changes which had taken place over here. After detailed consideration of the various options the group made a number of recommendations and these have been incorporated in the draft order now before your Lordships' House.
The effect of the order is to give about 200,000 people in Northern Ireland statutory protection for the first time against risks to their health, safety and welfare while at work. In addition the public at large is protected against risks to health or safety arising from work activities. The main provisions of the draft order are identical to those of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 with the exception of the administrative arrangements. After careful consideration the joint consultative group concluded that the arrangements made for Great Britain under the 1974 Act, involving the setting up of two new bodies, the Health and Safety Commission and the Health and Safety Executive, were not entirely appropriate for Northern Ireland. The group therefore recommended the establishment of a Health and Safety Agency for Northern Ireland, with functions broadly similar to those of the Commission, and recommended that Government Departments should keep their legislative, enforcement and main executive functions in relation to health and safety in the workplace.
The draft order does not contain an equivalent to Part III of the 1974 Act, which deals with building regulations. That is dealt with in a separate order

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which is before your Lordships' House today. I should like to comment very briefly on some of the main provisions of this important order. Article 3 states the general purpose of Part II of the order; namely, to secure the health, safety and welfare of people at work, to protect other people against risks to health or safety arising out of work activities and to control the keeping and use of explosive or highly flammable or otherwise dangerous substances.
Articles 4 to 10 lay general duties on employers, the self-employed, employees, people in control of premises, and manufacturers, designers, importers and suppliers of articles for use at work. Articles 12, 13 and 15 give statutory authority for the setting up of the Health and Safety Agency for Northern Ireland and specify its functions. These include reviewing various aspects of health and safety at work, making recommendations about regulations, encouraging the carrying out of research and making arrangements for the provision of training and information. The Agency will also have the important executive responsibility of preparing and issuing codes of practice and approving codes prepared by others.
Articles 20 to 28 are all concerned with aspects of enforcement such as the appointment and power of inspectors and the issue of improvement and prohibition notices. Under Part III of the draft order (Articles 48 to 51) the Department of Manpower Services has the duty of setting up an Employment Medical Advisory Service. This will be similar to the Service which has been in existence in England and Wales since 1973 and will provide information and advice on the safeguarding and improvement of the health of employed people and of those looking for, or training for, employment.
Finally, I should like to repeat something that I said earlier: this draft order brings the law in Northern Ireland back into line with the rest of the United Kingdom and provides for a sizeable section of the working population statutory protection for the first time against risks to their health or safety. It incorporates administrative arrangements worked out after consultation with both sides of industry in Northern Ireland and I am confident that it will command wide-ranging support. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft Health and Safety at Work (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 11th May, be approved.—(Lord Melchett.)
Viscount LONG: My Lords, once again I am most grateful to the noble Lord for explaining this very important order and the extremely important draft Health and Safety at Work Agency. I am sure that my noble friends on this side of the House welcome the protection that people will now receive at work within the new Agency. There is, of course, a great deal to read in it and to learn from it, but I am only interested in two items. First, on what date will it come into effect? It is important to get it moving as soon as possible. I see that the Agency is to have a chairman and six others. Has the chairman been elected yet or is that to come? I believe that this is a very good step forward as regards the protection of many people in Northern Ireland and I welcome the order.
Lord MELCHETT: My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Viscount for his welcome again of what, as he says, is a very important order. The order will be brought into effect as soon as possible. There will, of course, be some administrative and other arrangements to be made once the order has received the approval of both Houses of Parliament, but I do not anticipate too long a delay. As regards the second matter which the noble Viscount asked me about, again the procedures of appointing people to posts in the Agency and so on will await the passage through Parliament of the order. However, once again we hope to make very speedy progress once Parliament has approved these provisions.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

BUILDING REGULATIONS (NORTHERN IRELAND) ORDER 1978
11.28 a.m.
Lord MELCHETT Lord MELCHETT rose to move, That the draft Building Regulations (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 11th May, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, this order will widen the scope and purposes for which building regulations may be made

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in Northern Ireland. At present, building regulations are made under the powers available in the Building Regulations (Northern Ireland) Order 1972.
Since 1972, powers in England and Wales and in Scotland have been considerably extended under the provisions of Part III of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974. The provisions of this order are designed to take account of the new powers introduced in the rest of the United Kingdom in 1974 and to bring Northern Ireland enabling powers into line. This is the order which I mentioned a moment ago when introducing the Health and Safety at Work Order.
The most far-reaching change is a general widening of the scope and purposes for which building regulations may be made. At present, regulations may be made to secure the health, safety and convenience of people in or about buildings, but the order will make it possible for regulations also to take account of the welfare of people, and the conservation of fuel and power. The introduction of the word "welfare" could for example enable building regulations to cater specifically for the needs of the disabled. "The conservation of fuel and power" would enable building regulations to prescribe thermal insulation standards above what would be the minimum considered necessary to safeguard the health of the occupants of buildings.
The enabling powers contained in the order are designed to keep the regulations streamlined and to ensure that we have a system of building control in keeping with, and responsive to, contemporary building techniques and materials. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft Building Regulations (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 11th May, be approved.—(Lord Melchett.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

LICENSING (NORTHERN IRELAND) ORDER 1978
11.31 a.m.
Lord MELCHETT Lord MELCHETT rose to move, That the draft Licensing (Northern Ireland)Order
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1978, laid before the House on 17th May, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, the purpose of this order is to make certain minor but important amendments to the Licensing Act (Northern Ireland) 1971. The changes are needed largely because of terrorist activities directed against licensed hotels. I think that this is the only order with which we are dealing today which does not simply extend existing legislation in Great Britain to Northern Ireland. But it makes only a small change in the existing licensing laws in Northern Ireland.
A hotel that suffers bomb damage is usually so extensively affected that all normal business has to be discontinued or severely curtailed. However, if the residential part of the hotel has been severely damaged, or totally destroyed, the lack of residential accommodation prevents such hotels from obtaining a certificate of registration with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board as an approved and fully operational hotel. Such a certificate is a statutory prerequisite for the renewal of an hotel liquor licence. So a hotel that is damaged may in many cases not only lose most of its custom but also the right to renew its licence until the residential accommodation is rebuilt and a Tourist Board certificate can then be obtained.
This order will enable the licensing courts to continue, where necessary, to grant renewals of liquor licences attached to licensed hotels which in recent years have suffered damage from bomb attacks. Where the hotel is still partially operative then the order would enable the licensing courts to continue, for a reasonable period, to renew the liquor licence, subject to certain conditions. To encourage hoteliers to resume full hotel operation as soon as possible, only two renewals can be granted, and an applicant for a third renewal would have to satisfy the court that there were reasonable grounds for the delay in reopening. The order will also ensure that certain rights and privileges attaching to especially old licensed premises are protected.
The limited proposals in this order are designed to help a part of the Northern Ireland economy which has been singled out for extensive attacks in recent years. It is vital for us to support the hotel

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industry in Northern Ireland to maintain normal hotel services for those living in and those visiting Northern Ireland today and also to encourage individual hoteliers and the industry in general to plan and build for the future. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft Licensing (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 17th May, be approved.—(Lord Melchett.)
Viscount LONG: My Lords, I was not going to say anything about this order, but I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, for explaining it to us. It is very important indeed that this order should go forward in order to protect the hotels and the tourist trade as a whole in Northern Ireland. I believe that we all welcome this new order, which is extremely important to the employment of people and to the tourist trade as a whole.
Lord HAMPTON: My Lords, in supporting this order, I should like to say that we on these Benches think that this is an important order and to join with the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, in expressing our appreciation of what the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, is doing in Northern Ireland.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

POLLUTION CONTROL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (NORTHERN IRELAND) ORDER 1978
11.34 a.m.
Lord MELCHETT Lord MELCHETT rose to move, That the draft Pollution Control and Local Government (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 16th May, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, this order is concerned with the prevention and control of pollution of the environment. Northern Ireland, because of its rural nature and less developed heavy industrial sector, does not experience pollution problems to the same extent as other parts of the United Kingdom. But the public rightly expect stringent measures be taken to deal with such pollution as does exist.
This order broadly follows the lines of the Control of Pollution Act 1974.
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Part II of the order gives district councils important new functions relating to the preparation of waste disposal plans, the licensing of disposal sites and the collection and recycling or reclaiming of waste. Part III has the effect of making noise a statutory nuisance. It provides councils with powers to control noise from specific sources such as construction sites and also more generally to establish noise abatement zones. Finally, in Part IV, the legislation in Northern Ireland on atmospheric pollution is brought more closely into line with that in Great Britain. The timetable for implementing the order will, of course, be discussed with the Association of Local Authorities. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft Pollution Control and Local Government (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, laid before the House on 16th May, be approved.—(Lord Melchett.)
Viscount LONG: My Lords, once again, I am most grateful for the way in which the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, has described this order. There is a great deal in it. I want to ask only one or two questions on Part IV concerning the regulations on engines. Would those engines be motor engines? Can the noble Lord describe what he means here and whether the law on pollution from engines refers to the smoke or the fuel involved in the running of engines, and whether it is concerned with cars? I cannot find anything in Scotland or Wales which deals with this. However, I may be absolutely wrong; I am not at all certain.
Lord MELCHETT: My Lords, the noble Viscount has said that a great deal is contained in this order. If he could point me to the article with which he is concerned, it would help me to give him the response he wants.
Viscount LONG: My Lords, I seem to have lost my place. However, the explanatory notes set out certain items and one of them is on engines. Perhaps I could leave this matter for the moment and discuss it with the noble Lord outside the Chamber. Having lost my place and having tried to sort myself out, I have nothing further to say on any of these orders, except to wish the noble Lord a very happy holiday. We have dealt with the order on licensing laws but that does not mean to say that we should take too

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much advantage of those licensing laws. I wish the noble Lord and all noble Lords in the Chamber a very happy holiday.
Lord MELCHETT: My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount, Lord Long, very much indeed for those good wishes. Having thrown him into some confusion, I have had time to find the article which is No. 55. My information is that this extends to Northern Ireland existing powers in the legislation in Great Britain. I do not think that I can give the noble Viscount the exact reference to the Act in Great Britain, but if the noble Viscount would take it from me on trust that that is the case, I should be very grateful.
I should like to take this opportunity to thank him very much for giving these important Northern Ireland orders a speedy passage through your Lordships' House.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

ROYAL ASSENT
11.39 a.m.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Lord Aberdare): My Lords, I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that the Queen has signified Her Royal Assent to the following Acts:
Education (Northern Ireland) Act 1978,
Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1978,
Solomon Islands Act 1978,
Orkney Islands Council Order Confirmation Act 1978.
Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE: My Lords, may we on these Benches very warmly reciprocate the kind wishes that we have had from the noble Viscount, Lord Long. We shall not pay too much attention to the licensing laws!

WRITTEN ANSWERS

  MAZE PRISON: PARLIAMENTARY VISITORS
  The Earl of LONGFORD The Earl of LONGFORD asked Her Majesty's Government:

  (i) What are the present rules governing visits from Members of the House of Commons and Members of the House of Lords to the Maze Prison in Northern Ireland;

  (ii) how do those rules differ, if at all, from those governing similar visits to:

  (a) other prisons in Northern Ireland; and

  (b) prisons in England and Wales.

  (iii) since 1st January 1978, how many visits have been paid to the Maze Prison by:

  (a) MPs with a Northern Ireland connection;

  (b) other MPs and Peers; and

  (c) other persons apart from official prison visitors, others with official business, members of prisoners' families and personal friends.

  Lord MELCHETT Lord MELCHETT: It has been the practice for some time to allow representative groups of Members of the House of Commons to make annual general interest visits to prison establishments in Northern Ireland. It is normal for the timing of these visits to be arranged in consultation with prison governors. In addition, Members of the House of Commons may visit their constituents in Northern Ireland prisons, and such visits do not count against a prisoner's entitlement. Any Member may also visit a prisoner who is not a constituent if the prisoner requests him to do so; such a visit, or a visit by a Member of the House of Lords, would count against the normal entitlement. These visits take place in the visiting areas of the prisons.
  I am informed by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary that, generally speaking, Members of both Houses of Parliament may visit prisons in England and Wales on request. Maze Prison, which accommodates some 1,800 prisoners, is the focus of a propaganda campaign for political status for terrorists; it is

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  therefore attracting more attention than the other establishments in Northern Ireland or, indeed, in the rest of the United Kingdom. The number of requests for visits by public figures has made necessary the imposition of the present restrictions.
  From 1st January to 17th May 1978 four Members of Parliament representing constituencies in Northern Ireland have visited Maze Prison on general interest visits. Two others have made constituency visits. Seven Conservative Members of the House of Commons visited the prison on 14th April. These visits were made under the arrangements described in the reply to the first part of the Question. The only other visits, apart from those by persons in the categories mentioned in the noble Earl's Question, were parochial visits made by the Archbishop O'Fiaich and Bishop Daly on 5th January and 19th April respectively.

  FAMILY IMPACT STATEMENT
  Lord SANDYS Lord SANDYS asked Her Majesty's Government:
  Whether they will list the European countries, including those of Eastern Europe, which require new Government legislation to carry with it a Family Impact Statement assessing the consequences for the family.
  Lord WELLS-PESTELL Lord WELLS-PESTELL: I regret that information on this subject is not available. It could be obtained only at disproportionate cost.

  STANDARDS OF CONDUCT IN PUBLIC LIFE
  Lord ALLEN of ABBEYDALE Lord ALLEN of ABBEYDALE asked Her Majesty's Government:
  What progress has been made to implement Recommendations 33 to 35
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  of the Report of the Royal Commission on Standards of Conduct in Public Life.
  The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich)The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich): The Government accept in principle Recommendations 33–35 of the Report of the Royal Commission on Standards of Conduct in Public Life. New procedures, based on those recommended by the Royal Commission, have been prepared in consultation with those concerned, and are set out in a circular to chief officers of police in England and Wales with the request that they be implemented as soon as possible. A copy of the circular has been placed in the Library.
  Similar arrangements will apply in Northern Ireland. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland hopes to make an announcement shortly about the arrangements in Scotland.
  The Government hope that these arrangements will receive wide publicity. The National Association of Citizens' Advice Bureaux is being sent information about the new arrangements. In response to the Royal Commission's recommendations, H.M. Chief Inspector of Constabulary and the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis will comment on public sector corruption in their annual reports to my right honourable friend.
  The Government are satisfied that these new arrangements will meet the Royal Commission's objectives of ensuring that the arrangements are such that no one should feel inhibited from reporting any allegation of corruption in public life and that inquiries into such reports will be properly co-ordinated.
  House adjourned for the Whitsun Recess at twenty minutes before twelve o'clock.