§ 3.15 p.m.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
480 To ask Her Majesty's Government why the estimate of additional civil servants required in Wales, given in the Explanatory Memorandum of the Wales Bill, is greater than the estimate of additional civil servants required in Scotland, together with the staff of the proposed Scottish Assembly, predicted in the Explanatory Memorandum of the Scotland Bill.
§ The LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord Elwyn-Jones)My Lords, many civil servants at present in Scotland and Wales and now employed on work to be devolved will undertake that same work on devolution. But because of the already greater degree of decentralisation of central Government activities to Scotland than is the case in Wales, a greater number of additional staff will be required in Wales. This accounts for the difference in the memoranda.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that reply, which was on the lines I have been expecting. While there are some strange proposals in both Bills, which should cause us no further surprise, is it not very odd that there should be 750 extra civil servants in Scotland and 1,150 in Wales?—considering that the extent of further devolution is supposed to be less in Wales than in Scotland.
§ The LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, I have already given an explanation of the difference. The noble Lord has not taken into account the 240 additional staff which will be needed to serve the Scottish Assembly. I have given the explanation. I can only admire the enthusiasm of the noble Lord—after thirteen days in Committee on the Scotland Bill, having the energy once more to return to it at Question Time.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, in anticipation of a similar performance on the Bill to which the noble Lord has just alluded, may I ask him whether the costing that appears in the same document as this £9 million is correct and, if it is, what is the adult population of Wales and how much per head per week will be needed to pay these people?
§ The LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, these are absolutely fascinating 481 questions, about which there will be abundant opportunity to give answers during the forthcoming discussions on the Wales Bill.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, may I satisfy the anticipation of the noble and learned Lord by saying that I make it 10p per head per week?
§ The LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, I do not yet know, not having the information readily before me, whether the noble Lord has exaggerated or underestimated.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I am again grateful for the compliment which the noble and learned Lord has paid. Of course, he, as a Welshman, is as interested in this matter as I am, as a Scot. May I ask, however, whether the noble and learned Lord noticed that in my original Question I had taken into account in the wording the proposed staff of the new Assembly?