Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is now possible to report any action on the part of the Commission of the European Economic Community on the problem of the Soviet Union undercutting United Kingdom freights.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, the agenda for the meeting of the Council of Ministers (Transport) in June includes the question of East bloc competition. Ministers will then consider Commission proposals, which are being discussed now in Brussels, and other suggestions.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that reply, may I ask how long we shall have to wait before we know what action can be taken? I am sure it is fair to say that the noble Baroness is just as anxious as I am to look after our merchant navy fleet and I have been raising this matter time and time again. Could the noble Baroness exercise a little pressure to get on with the matter? It is very important indeed to our merchant navy.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I accept all that the noble Baroness has said about the time it takes to come to decisions on these matters. If she thinks that I am any good at exerting pressure, then I will certainly give her that assurance.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, could the noble Baroness state what stage these negotiations have reached in Brussels? Has the matter been discussed by Coreper or has it in any way reached the Council of Ministers yet? It would be helpful if the noble Baroness could give an indication of the timing that we may expect.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, as the noble Baroness said earlier, this has gone on for a long time. Last year the Ministers from the Department held talks with the Soviet Minister of Merchant Marine over the difficulties that were being created by Soviet rate-cutting. There were further discussions in June of last year when both sides agreed that they would try to seek guidelines for the orderly development of maritime trades and set up a continuing mechanism to try to identify and establish all the difficulties. Subsequently there were Ministerial talks in Moscow which, as my noble friend Lord Oram reported a few months ago, proved to be very disappointing. The problem is that for the time being it would seem that the Soviet authorities have decided that the commercial advantages 131 that they can gain from a continuing policy of a rather aggressive outsider competition with Western shipping out-weighs the political advantages of trying to accommodate and to work with us. The stage we have now reached is that the Commission have produced a paper as a basis for consideration for possible action at Community level.
I am sorry to reply in such detail but I think it will be helpful. The points made are, first, an expression of Community objectives relating to the East bloc liner shipping; secondly, some form of establishment of a Community-wide monitoring system; and thirdly, the establishment of a mechanism for using Community-wide countervailing powers, such as quotas, if these prove to be necessary. The United Kingdom, West Germany and Denmark have broadly endorsed that Commission's draft.
The Commission, against the wish of many of the Members, have now published those proposals and there has been some stiffening of resistance among some of our other Members in the Community. It is against this background that the Danish Presidency is now trying to draw up some form of compromise proposal. The Commission's document will be before the meeting and therefore cannot be withdrawn, so it may be—and here it is pure speculation—that on 12th June when this meeting is called the Council of Ministers (Transport) will have a report on the Commission's proposal. They will also have some suggestions for compromise. There may also be further developments which will come out of that. More than that I cannot say until after the meeting.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, I am most grateful for that full reply. Will the Government accept that we have a strong position in regard to the Soviet fishing marine, and if they do not come to terms with the Community we might have a different attitude towards allowing them to fish under Third Country rights under the fishing agreements with the Soviet Union? I think that some pressure should be brought to bear upon them.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, there are several pressures that might be brought to bear, but at this point of time 132 I think we would rather wait for the outcome of the meeting on 12th June.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, if one asks how many of the conditions referred to in the previous Question are observed by the Soviet Union, and if the answer is "very few", what action will the Government take to raise this matter in the ILO?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, there again, I should not like to be drawn until after this meeting on 12th June. We are hoping that we may reach a solution then.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, is my noble friend aware of the differences of opinion there may be among the Member States concerning the Commission proposals and that these proposals were in fact agreed by the European Parliament a week ago, and were agreed unanimously?
§ Baroness STEDMANYes, my Lords, I am aware of that and they are also before our Scrutiny Committees.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether action is still being taken by making representations to the Soviet Union? In view of the fact that she has given a very full reply now, can I ask whether it is really in order in the House for details of these arrangements to be given in supplementaries rather than in the original Answer, for instance to me, when I have asked the Question?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I understand the custom in this House is to be as brief as possible in the first Answer and to give such additional information as is asked for afterwards.