§ 2.56 p.m.
Baroness VICKERSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the Secretary of State for Education and Science will shortly be in a position to give her views on the proposals submitted to her in September 1977 for the constitution of a commission to deal with the problems created by overseas students.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge)My Lords, these proposals have been the subject of intensive study in the context of the thoroughgoing examination of future policy towards overseas student support which is currently being carried out by my right honourable friend and her Government colleagues. My right honourable friend expects to be able to give her views on these proposals in the near future.
Baroness VICKERSMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. As this has been going on since September 1977, may I ask him to give an idea what "the near future" means? Would he agree that the delay will allow those who can pay about £2,500 a year to come in by the back door, thus getting away from Circular 8/77 which said the numbers were to be limited to 68,000 this autumn?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGETo answer the first part of that supplementary, my Lords, I cannot give a precise date, but I would hazard a guess that it will be before the Summer Recess. Let me at least say that, though I do not wish it to be taken as a promise. To answer the second part, the situation referred to is 788 exactly the sort of point that is giving trouble and is being examined very carefully.
§ Lord SAINSBURYMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are those on this side of the House who support very strongly the setting up of a commission because of the need for co-ordination on student matters between the various Government Departments concerned, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and outside bodies?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, I think my right honourable friend is aware that there is support on both sides of the House for the suggestions which were originally in the memorandum of the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, which included this. The only thing I can say is that a final decision has not yet been made.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, would the Minister agree that the giving of education to overseas students is not only a proven means of improving the exports of British manufacturers but also a very significant and important element in our programme of overseas development aid? Will he therefore tell us w hat in this matter is the position of the Overseas Development Ministry, which concerns them closely?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, I agree with the background in what the noble Lord said. Of course it is a very important item and of course it concerns the ODM. One of the matters under discussion is to what extent, and how far.
§ Lord ALEXANDER of POTTERHILLMy Lords, in view of the previous supplementary question about this being an important part of foreign aid, may I ask the noble Lord whether he does not think it would be appropriate that the cost of providing the said education for foreign students should be debited to foreign aid and not the education account?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, having said that no decisions have been made, it is no good trying to get an answer out of me on a question of this sort. This is exactly the kind of question which is at the moment being considered.
§ Baroness GAITSKELLMy Lords, have the Government had consultations about this with the Commonwealth Secretariat and its very able Secretary-General?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEI am quite certain they have, my Lords, but I do not have a note to that effect and I will confirm it in writing.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, arising from the reply which the Minister gave to the noble Lord, Lord Alexander of Potterhill, may I ask whether it is not useful for the Ministry, while it is making up its mind, to have these points raised? Will they in relation to his question bear in mind the fact that the presence of overseas students on numerous occasions enables universities to provide courses for British students which would not, in their absence, be viable?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEI accept that as something which is useful, my Lords; it, too, is under consideration.
§ Lord ROBBINSMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that delay in this matter may cause considerable embarrassment to university administrations for the forthcoming academic year?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, if the delay lasted for longer than I have indicated, then I think that would be so, but if we get an answer by the Summer Recess I do not think it would have that effect.