HL Deb 03 May 1978 vol 391 cc173-6

2.46 p.m.

Lord GRIDLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they will be able to announce completion of the takeover of overseas pensions of expatriate officers from former dependent territories.

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, my right h onourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development hopes that the takeover of overseas pensions will be substantially completed by the end of this year. Arrangements have been completed for 24 out of the 39 countries concerned. I will circulate a detailed list in the Official Report. Formal agreements have been concluded with Antigua, Guyana and Malaysia.

Following is the detailed list referred to:

Countries for which arrangements have been completed:
Sudan Fiji
Gambia Malta
Burma Ghana
Lesotho Seychelles
Dominica Botswana
Mauritius Tanzania
Swaziland Sierra Leone
Grenada Jamaica
St. Lucia Solomon Islands
St. Vincent Gilbert Islands
Malawi Kenya
St. Kitts Singapore

Expatriate pensions not vet taken over:

Lord GRIDLEY

My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that Answer, may I ask whether she considers the situation entirely satisfactory? Are the Government aware that, in pursuance of a policy laid down by them seven years ago to take over responsibility for these pensions, to date only 17,000 have actually been taken over and 25,000 remain to be taken over? Will the noble Baroness give me an assurance and some information as regards the plans which the Government might implement to expedite that situation and to complete the taking over of the remaining 25,000 pensions?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, I am afraid that nothing in life is entirely satisfactory. Her Majesty's Government are well aware of the very noble efforts that the noble Lord has made on behalf of the overseas pensioners. We are very grateful to him indeed for the trouble he has taken. I can give him an assurance that every possible means of expediting the takeover is being taken and will continue to be taken.

Baroness GAITSKELL

My Lords, I should like to ask the Chief Whip whether her remarks apply to the British who have lived in Rhodesia for some years, because I have recently received an appeal from a man about this particular aspect of pensions.

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, the Question which was tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Gridley, was not to do with Rhodesia. The situation is extremely complicated in that country, but I will gladly talk to the noble Baroness or write to her about it.

Lord ORAM

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the transfer of responsibility for the payment of these pensions brings to an end an anomaly—namely, that in aid statistics pensions paid to superannuated colonial servants now living in the United Kingdom still counted as aid to the overseas country in which they formerly served? I hope that that situation will be brought to an end. If my noble friend is not in a position to answer, will she include the information in the note which she promised to circulate in the Official Report in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Gridley?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, if not on this occasion, certainly on a later one.

Lord GRIDLEY

My Lords, I should like to put one final question to the noble Baroness. If the difficulties overseas are administrative—and to a certain extent I have sympathy for the Government as regards that—has not the time now come when it might be considered appropriate to bring this question up at ministerial level (that is to say, from Minister in this country to Minister in the independent country) and in that way try to get some assistance towards expediting the situation?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, of course. When my right honourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development goes abroad she, personally, always deals with this if there is a difficulty in the country in question. I can give the noble Lord that particular assurance. As I think the noble Lord appreciates, there are legislative difficulties which are very real in some countries. However, wherever we can, we try to help them and we keep in constant touch with the High Commissions.

Lord BOWDEN

My Lords, can my noble friend tell me whether these pensions will be properly indexed, as they should be?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, yes.