SERVICE MARRIED QUARTERS (Hansard, 20 March 1978)

Baroness VICKERS
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, about 18,800 Service married quarters were vacant in the United Kingdom on the 15th January of this year.

Baroness VICKERS
My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that Answer, may I ask her whether she would convey to her noble friend our sorrow that he is ill and unable to be here today. Can she say whether consideration can be given to the question of rents? When you find that Servicemen have to pay anything between £33 and £43 a month, and officers anything between £52 and £89 a month plus their mess bills, surely consideration should be given to this matter. Perhaps the noble Baroness will draw the attention of the Secretary of State to this matter.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, this is a matter which will be covered in the next report of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body. In the meantime, I will certainly make the views of the noble Baroness known to my honourable friend.

§ Lord GISBOROUGH
My Lords, could the noble Baroness give some idea of the rents which might be considered 1564 to be fair in the case of similar, comparable properties in local authority areas? Secondly, could she take into account the fact that civilians at comparable rates of pay to those of officers are able to spend their lives purchasing their houses, while officers, because they have to move so often, are restricted to rented property and, therefore, are not able to start buying until they retire? Therefore, is there not justification for their having specially cheap rates for their houses when they rent them?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, when the rent allowances were consolidated with pay in order to put the Servicemen into, as it were, the civilian pay policy category, this was one of the points which was taken into account; and my understanding is—and here I speak as the substitute for my noble friend, who is ill today—that the rents which are charged are comparable to those charged by local authorities within the areas. I also understand that there is a growing tendency among Servicemen to buy their own houses, and not to have the married quarters which are available to them.

§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIE
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that, in agriculture, a tied house is charged at about £1 a week, and that this would be a reasonable rent to charge for a Serviceman living in a tied house?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, that is not for me to say; that is a matter for the Armed Forces Pay Review Body to consider.

§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIE
My Lords, I trust the noble Baroness will bring that matter to the attention of her honourable friend.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, I am sure that my honourable friend will read what has been said in this House with very great concern.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that we seem to be expecting too much from the proposed review by the Armed Forces Pay Review Body? Meanwhile, if there are as many cases of married quarters being vacated as the number she has given your Lordships' House, is it not possible that married 1565 quarters are being vacated because of the inability to pay rent? That is a matter which ought to engage the attention of Her Majesty's Government, and some remedy ought to be devised.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, it may be possible that that is a contributory factor to people not taking up married quarters, but it is not the whole answer.

§ Lord AVEBURY
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness could say what proportion of the total stock of dwellings this figure of 18,800 represents? And if, as I suspect, it is very much higher than the equivalent for a local authority, is there not something to be said for an interchange of lettings between the Department of Defence and the local authorities in the areas where these houses are located?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, the proportion is about 19 per cent. of the total stock of the houses in the United Kingdom. We have a total stock of about 100,000 houses in the United Kingdom, and at the moment 18,800 are available. About 7,000 of these are vacant for normal management reasons—because they are being modernised, because they are being redecorated between tenancies, and so on. There are about 4,000 which are being held pending known or possible future deployments of Armed Forces, and there are 1,100 which are held for requirements such as reserve camps. When we have surplus accommodation it is offered, through the Property Services Agency, to the local authorities in the areas. Unfortunately, many of the properties which we offer are in isolated places and are not taken up by the local authorities because they do not help to meet their needs. Where they are available, they are offered to the local authorities for them to take over on either a leasing or purchasing basis.

§ Lord ROBBINS
My Lords, would not the noble Baroness agree that, speaking broadly, if there is an excess of 19 per cent. of supply over demand, it would suggest that some alteration of price was called for?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, as I have said, that may be one of the contributory factors, but it is not the whole answer.