§ Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will adhere to the ruling of the Scottish courts and send back to 135 Chile her property—namely, the four Rolls-Royce aero engines stored at East Kilbride—and thereby clear themselves of possible allegations of theft.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the ruling of the Hamilton Sheriff Court is a matter between Rolls-Royce Limited and the Chilean Government.
§ Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARDMy Lords, I am not really sure whether I can thank the noble Lord for that Answer. However, is he aware that the Chilean Government sent these engines to Britain for overhaul over four years ago? Is he further aware that it is not a very good advertisement for our export trade if we deny our customers their legal property presumably because their politics are not sufficiently Marxist to please the unions involved? Moreover, when are Her Majesty's Government going to realise that they are the Government of this whole country, and not just the lapdog of the unions?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I agree with the first two points made by the noble Viscount. However, as regards the third point, the Government have, in fact, no role in implementing the ruling of the sheriff court. Their responsibility lies under the granting of a licence for the export of aero-engines, under the Export of Goods Control Order 1970. The granting of such a licence is under consideration.
§ Lord DERWENTMy Lords, should not Her Majesty's Government hurry up in granting the licences?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, yes, for commercial reasons that is obviously desirable.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, is the issue of the export licence the only matter that now prevents the export of these engines? When and if the licence is issued, will the Government ensure that there is no further delay in the return of these engines?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I am certain that the Government would not issue a licence without permitting the engines to leave the country.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, at present is it not the case that the engines are being prevented from leaving the country by the action of the trade unions at Rolls-Royce? Are the Government in no position to use their influence with those unions to see that the engines are returned to their rightful owners?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMYes, my Lords, the Government are using their influence.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that this transaction is doing real damage to our reputation as a trading nation and that, if it is a question of bureaucratic delay, that could be rectified at once if the Government wished to do so?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, yes, the point which the noble Baroness has made is correct: this cannot do our trade relations any good.
§ Lord HANKEYMy Lords, are the Government aware that this is doing very great damage to our export effort and that it brings British industry into real disrepute with our customers abroad? Do the Government think that people will continue to buy British engines if they cannot be sure of getting them reconditioned in this country? Why has this gone on for so long anyhow? Do the Government not want this sort of contract to continue? Would it not improve British employment and British reputation abroad if we were to settle the matter soon?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I thought that I had already answered that question.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, will the noble Lord tell the House how long it will take for the export licence to be discussed and why it has taken so long? It seems fairly straightforward.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, if it were straightforward it would not have taken so long. However, it is, I understand, under very active consideration—that is not in the usual formula of words.
§ Lord MURRAY of GRAVESENDMy Lords, would my noble friend not agree that, notwithstanding the pleas for the Chilean Government, the actions of the Chilean Government and their attitude towards political prisoners brings them into disrepute with people who believe in democracy?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, if we mishandled political prisoners there would be very few countries with whom we could trade.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, if this dispute continues much longer after the passing of the Scotland Bill, will this matter he the responsibility of the Assembly as a devolved matter referring to industry, or will it be a reserved matter referring to foreign affairs?
§ Viscount MONTGOMERY of ALAMEINMy Lords, will the noble Lord amplify the answer he gave to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and say why it is not straightforward?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, because this is a very sensitive subject about which large groups of people have strong views. But the consideration is being given and the strong views of this House today will, I hope, accelerate the decision.