HL Deb 22 June 1978 vol 393 cc1383-5

3.26 p.m.

Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will report on the meeting of the appropriate European Community Members and what action was proposed with regard to the difficulties of dealing with unfair competition by Soviet shipping with British merchant shipping.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the Transport Ministers Council agreed at its meeting on 12th June to adopt a decision enabling the Community to monitor the activities of the fleets of countries whose practices threaten EEC shipping. There is also provision for the possible subsequent use of concerted counter-measures. The question of applying the monitoring system to State-trading countries, including the Soviet Union, and to flag-of-convenience fleets, will be studied further with a view to a decision at the next Transport Council in November.

Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDE

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask him whether, as a member of our country, he will take every possible step to help those who are really interested in the unfair competition between the Soviet Union and ourselves, and to get moving before our shipping is almost swept off the oceans of the world? This is the problem. Will the Minister act always with the greatest possible care to protect our shipping?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, since the noble Baroness started questioning me on this matter the present Government have made substantial progress. This is a serious matter. The noble Baroness has been very pertinacious in following up the interests of the British shipping industry. I congratulate her on that. The fact that we are getting to the point where the European Community is acting in concert on this matter is of great importance. One of the problems that we face is not that we disagree with our colleagues, but that one of the member countries feels that flags of convenience must also be included in any study and monitoring of action that we must take.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, can the Minister say whether the appropriate EEC Commission has made inquiries about wages and conditions on these Soviet vessels? If it has discovered that the unfair competition is the real cause of the trouble why not refer the matter to the International Labour Office and condemn the Soviet Union for unfair competition arising out of the abominal wages and conditions obtaining on Soviet vessels?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, unfortunately we cannot control the way that the Soviet Union runs its economy. Commercial factors do not enter into its pricing policy. What we in Europe can do in concert is at least to act and make certain that it at least obeys the rules, and agrees to the rules, of the various conferences regulating shipping prices and so on throughout the world.

Lord CAMPBELL of CROY

My Lords, can the noble Lord confirm that there has been deliberate uneconomic undercutting in freight charges by the Soviet Union on routes between third and fourth countries in different parts of the world, not involving Soviet imports or exports, with the express intention of taking over the business of shipping on those routes?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the Soviet Union has been following a very aggressive commercial policy in this area, for instance between Australia and the United States. But I think it can be regulated only by concerted action between interested nations. The Common Market, which includes the United Kingdom, has a very substantial influence in the world decision to make certain that the Soviet Union in fact follows the example of the other members of the Comecon nations in falling in with the regulations of the shipping conferences.

Lord KILMARNOCK

My Lords, will the noble Lord confirm that the results of the monitoring system are due to be reviewed every six months, and, if that is the case, say whether in fact any results will be available for consideration at the Council of Ministers in November?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I would assume that since the Council sits every six months, once in the lifetime of the presidency of each of the Member Nations, that a six-monthly review will take place, although I cannot confirm that.