THE HS 146 AIRLINER (Hansard, 21 June 1978)

§ The Earl of KINNOULL
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, the Government are considering the recommendation of the British Aerospace Board as a matter of urgency; I can assure your Lordships that a decision will be announced as soon as possible.

§ The Earl of KINNOULL
My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, which I do not think would win an Oscar for information, may I ask him three supplementaries? The first is, how many jobs are involved at Hatfield should the project go ahead? Secondly, would British Aerospace, within their own finances, be able to fund the project, and at what cost? Thirdly, is it a project the Government are considering in any case doing alone, rather than in collaboration?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, as regards the figure of employment, I think that is impossible to quantify, for the simple reason that one does not know what other work will be done by those companies concerned. As regards the financing, I can say that it will be funded in the normal way as part of British Aerospace's capital investment programme—from internal resources and a mixture of Public Dividend Capital and National Loans Fund money. British Aerospace, as the noble Earl will know, is expected to make an adequate return on its capital employed. As regards collaboration, 1116 British Aerospace are discussing with European manufacturers possible risk-sharing collaboration on up to 30 per cent. of the airframe, and their discussions are continuing. McDonel I Douglas have recently suggested marketing assistance for the HS 146 as part of a wider programme of collaboration.

§ The Earl of KIMBERLEY
My Lords, would the Minister not agree that there are several extremely keen potential customers for this aircraft, and that if the delay continues for very much longer not only will those customers lose interest but we shall lose them as potential customers?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, I personally have no knowledge of potential customers.

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, without wishing to be a spoil-sport on this matter, can the noble Lord not be a little more forthcoming on what the potential market is for this aeroplane? Are not the Government considering this as part of their deliberations on whether or not to approve the investment?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, at the end of the day it is not the Government but British Aerospace that decide, and British Aerospace have already recommended the go-ahead on the HS 146 because they regard it as in their commercial interests to do so. It is the national aerospace company that in fact makes recommendations on this matter.

§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTER
My Lords, would the Government bear in mind in their consideration of this matter, that although this is a most excellent design, with most excellent safety factors, it is now some years old and if the Government delay a decision for very much longer this aircraft may suffer the fate of many other excellent British civil aircraft, of coming on the market too late?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, I do not think that noble Lords need worry about this. As I have assured your Lordships, a decision will be announced as soon as possible—and that may be soon.

§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIE
My Lords, was the Minister serious when he said he had no knowledge of potential customers? It appears to me to be an extraordinary reply.

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, this is a matter for British Aerospace and not for me.

§ Lord TREFGARNE
But, my Lords, has British Aerospace not given the Government the slightest idea of how many of these aeroplanes they think they are going to sell?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, this is very early clays on a subject which has not yet gone nap.

§ The Earl of KINNOULL
My Lords, can the noble Lord not be a little more specific on the question of jobs? Have not the Government been approached by the trade unions involved at Hatfield, and if the noble Lord consulted British Aerospace would he not be told that 8,000 jobs are at stake?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, I am certain that the Government have been approached by a great many people on this subject. On the other hand, this is a moving situation, after all. We have recently concluded an important contract with Romania and this must affect employment at the various factories mentioned by the noble Earl.

§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTER
My Lords, did the noble Lord really intend to tell the House that British Aerospace, in seeking financial support for this project, have not submitted with their application the result of their market surveys?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, I said absolutely nothing of the sort: I did not. I said that British Aerospace had recommended a go-ahead on the HS146. That is enough. They have done the market survey. Please do not let us get bound to day-to-day business management. Nevertheless—
Several noble Lords: Oh!

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
Yes, my Lords, British Aerospace have made a recommendation to the Government and 1118 in due course the Government will respond, and very shortly thereafter both Houses will be informed.

§ Lord TREFGARNE
My Lords, I am wondering whether the noble Lord actually heard what my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter said. Has British Aerospace submitted estimates of the number of these aircraft that they intend to sell if the Government give the go-ahead, or have they not? If those estimates, which the noble Lord says they have made, remain confidential to British Aerospace and have not been given to the Government, how can the Government reach a proper decision?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, there is such a thing as commercial in-confidence. I keep on having to tell noble Lords, who claim to be experts on this matter, that there is such a thing as commercial in-confidence. I do not know, nor can I tell the House, what discussions have been taking place between British Aerospace and potential airlines. This is complete nonsense.