HL Deb 20 June 1978 vol 393 cc947-9
Lord JANNER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether their attention has been called to the cruelty involved in recent imports into this country of live tortoises from Turkey; whether they are satisfied with the powers existing to deal with such imports under the Transit of Animals (General) Order 1973 and, if not, what steps they propose to take to improve the situation.

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, the Government are aware of the condition in which recent consignments of tortoises from Turkey and Yugoslavia have reached this country. The condition of the tortoises in six of the consignments was satisfactory. Of the 14,000 tortoises in the seventh consignment, five were found to be dead and seven had to be destroyed. The powers available in the Transit of Animals (General) Order 1973 enable local authority or State veterinary inspectors to unload and remove animals which the inspectors have reason to believe are likely to be caused injury or unnecessary suffering.

Lord JANNER

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that the order does not cover the situation at all effectively? Recently there was a consignment brought here in which some of the animals died. Kent County Council have refused to take action, saying that because the person who was driving the vehicle was the only person who was there, and that Customs had sealed the particular box, they could not take pro- ceedings. Is my noble friend aware that there is very considerable agitation about the importation of tortoises when only one in 10, according to the estimates that have been received, survive the winter? Is it not time that this was stopped?

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, before I reply to that question, I am sure that the House would wish me to congratulate my noble friend Lord Janner on his 86th birthday.

Several noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, with regard to the question, as I have said, there were various consignments in May and June. The policy is at present only to permit importations of tortoises during those months when the climatic conditions are right when they arrive. Of the May and June consignments, all were inspected and only one consignment had some broken crates containing tortoises. A number of tortoises—about 40 of them—were loose in the vehicle. As I said in my Answer, of the 14,000 tortoises, five were dead and seven were injured, and these were destroyed.

Lord JANNER

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in 1975 the then Government spokesman for the Department of the Environment stated, in reply to a question from me, that he personally agreed that the carriage of exotic species to this country was likely to cause suffering? If it is likely to cause suffering, why on earth do we not stop it?

Lord STRAGOLGI

My Lords, we all have our views on these questions; and I have mine. At present, there is not sufficient evidence to ban importation.

Baroness SHARPLES

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us when tortoises hibernate, please?

Lord STRABOLGI

In the winter, my Lords. I should explain a little more. Tortoises travel in refrigerated vans so that they hibernate on the long journey from Turkey or Yugoslavia. Then they wake up here in the summer months to be become acclimatised to the British weather.

Lord ELTON

My Lords, if the tortoises were hibernating, how did 40 of them seize the opportunity of making a dash for freedom?

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, because the packing was inadequate, as I said earlier.

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