HL Deb 12 June 1978 vol 393 cc8-11

2.50 p.m.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the accumulating problems related to navigation, they will propose that the United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea should be integrated as a permanent institutionalised Agency of the United Nations.

The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE, (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)

My Lords, we believe that there are already adequate institutional arrangements, particularly the Inter-Governmental Maritime Consultative Organisation, to deal with these subjects. The conference should concentrate on its task of completing a generally acceptable convention as soon as possible.

Lord BROCKWAY

Yes, my Lords, but is it not the case that there have now been seven temporary meetings of this conference, and that agreement has been reached on only one of the seven basic issues? In view of the fact that the conference has to deal with so many issues—oil pollution, economic questions, fishing, coastal rights, mineral exploitation and landlocked rights, and new problems which will arise—is there not something to say for Elizabeth Young's proposal that this conference should be made an integrated part of the new economic authority of the United Nations?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, there is already a proposal, which is receiving fairly widespread support in the successive sessions of the conference, for an international seabed authority to deal with those matters which I know lie closest to my noble friend's heart; namely, the exploitation of most of the seabed and its resources for the assistance of developing countries. I would repeat that the first task of the conference in its successive sessions is to agree on a generally acceptable convention—a comprehensive one. There are institutions to which those conclusions could be put for implementation. If at that point it is seen to be necessary to add to institutions, no doubt the conference will have a look at that.

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, in view of the fact that as a temporary institution the Law of the Sea Conference is taking a very long time to reach any decisions about anything, would it not be most unwise to encourage the conference by making it permanent?

Lord GORONWY- ROBERTS

My Lords, I was avoiding the suggestion that the conference itself should become permanent. A conference as a rule should not be encouraged to become permanent, but in this case the successive sessions are really made necessary because of the far-reaching, indeed radical, questions which have been put to the conference for discussion. These raise matters of sovereignty, of exploitation, indeed of research; and for that reason I believe that the conference should not be chided unduly for having a great many successive sessions. However, I take note of what the noble Lord has said about the need to avoid making conferences permanent.

Baroness GAITSKELL

My Lords, would it not be true to say that the fact that the conference has had seven sessions is not a criticism of the sessions that have taken place, but rather an indication of the vastness and the difficulty of the problem? Here I disagree with my noble friend Lord Brockway; this is too big a problem merely to be shelved on to the United Nations.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, it is a matter of very great complexity and of very great importance. It is economically important. It is important from the point of view of the developing countries, and from the point of view of the landlocked and the disadvantaged. It is important from the point of view of internationally accepted rights of transit. One could go on for a long time listing these points of importance. I personally do not regret that the conference has taken time to deal with this vast complexity of extremely important questions. However, I repeat that conferences as a rule should not become institutionalised, and I once more agree, with alacrity, with the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, at least on one point.

Lord CAMPBELL of CROY

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House whether the Government are doing more to concentrate the conference on the really important and urgent matter; namely, a régime for deep-sea mining in the high seas?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

Yes, indeed, my Lords; we have been very active in thinking about, and putting forward, practical proposals, and we have been acting with a great many countries who see this matter very much as we do. I will not detain your Lordships with detail at this stage, but the noble Lord himself will know that the thinking, and to some extent the agreement, on the way in which we should handle the resources of the deep seabed beyond the 200 mile limit—if I may put the matter in that way for the moment, without prejudicing what the conference may finally decide on the matter—and, additionally, the way in which the conference has addressed itself to the question of the institution that might prescriptively deal with that side of its work, are encouraging. Of course, I take note of what the noble Lord has said today and on previous occasions; namely, that we should make our own interests very firmly known in the conference; and we certainly have done that.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, arising from the supplementary question by the Leader of the Opposition, and the supplementary question of my noble friend Lady Gaitskell, I wish to ask whether it is not a fact that the United Nations has now established an overall economic authority, and would it not be desirable that this new economic authority should co-ordinate the various activities, often overlapping, which are taking place on this subject?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, that is certainly an important suggestion as to the future structure, control, and supervision of two-thirds of the world, and I would not off-hand dismiss what my noble friend has said. I tend to agree with the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and my noble friend Lady Gaitskell that the United Nations, through a new institutionalised authority, might not prove to be the right vehicle for supervision and implementation in this case; but let us see. Already we have fair agreement on the International Seabed Authority; I realise that I am anticipating this, but I am very hopeful about it. It is still early days to come to a comprehensive decision on the lines that my noble friend Lord Brockway has suggested.